Need help choosing a project setting

[Dave McElderry]

I need some help sorting out the appropriate camcorder setting and then the project setting for AVCHD in Premiere Elements 10. The camcorder setting options are as follows:

Camcorder-Options-Resized.jpg

Premiere Elements' options are:

Premiere Elements 10 options.jpg

Notice that the camcorder manual actually suggests that if you intend to edit recordings the appropriate camcorder setting would be PF30, but it's recorded as 60i. For me, this is where the confusion starts. I did some searching and actually came across a posting on another forum by our own Steve Grisetti. Steve recommended recording in 60i for editing in Premiere Elements. I tried doing that using the 60i (standard) option, but then of course the only option that made any sense to me in the PrEl project settings was Full HD 1080i 30. With that combination it does seem to work on initial inspection, but I can't play the video in full screen mode from PrEl (it's just a black screen). I tried recording in PF30 mode on the camcorder and then used the same PrEl settings, and it does play in full screen mode.

So far as quality and ease of editing in Premiere Elements, what settings should I be using?

[Steve Grisetti]

I would sure expect Full AVCHD to work with 60i -- assuming of course that your AVCHD camcorder is shooting in 1920x1080.

You say you can't play the video in full screen mode from Premiere Elements. (Does version 10 have full screen mode?) Assuming your video card drivers are up to date and that you've got the latest version of Quicktime, that definitely should not be the case. Or is it ONLY in full screen mode that you have playback problems? Does the video play in the Monitor panel otherwise?

Finally, if all else fails, can you post a 10 or 20 second AVCHD clip shot with that camcorder in 60i to our Gallery so we can test in on our machines?

[Dave McElderry]

I would sure expect Full AVCHD to work with 60i -- assuming of course that your AVCHD camcorder is shooting in 1920x1080.

Yep, 1920x1080

You say you can't play the video in full screen mode from Premiere Elements. (Does version 10 have full screen mode?)

Yes, it does have a full screen mode.

Assuming your video card drivers are up to date and that you've got the latest version of Quicktime, that definitely should not be the case. Or is it ONLY in full screen mode that you have playback problems? Does the video play in the Monitor panel otherwise?

10-4 on the drivers and QT being up to date. Yes, it's *only* in full screen mode that it doesn't play. It plays fine in the monitor panel. Again, note that if I record in PF30 mode it will play full screen in PrEl.

Finally, if all else fails, can you post a 10 or 20 second AVCHD clip shot with that camcorder in 60i to our Gallery so we can test in on our machines?

Sure, I can do that, but not tonight. Would you like for me to do that tomorrow Steve?

[Dave McElderry]

BTW Steve....do you have any idea what the difference is between recording in the 60i Standard mode (60 fields per second) as opposed to recording in PF30 progressive, which is recorded as 60i? (I have no idea what the "PF" stands for.) That's very confusing.

EDIT:
I found the following in a Google search in some forums:

HDV - 60i

HDV (PF30) - 30p

HDV (PF24) - 24p telecined to 60i

HDV (24F) - 24p (no telecine)

I have also turned up a lot of other people asking the exact same questions as me. The answers seem to indicate that there is no "best" setting, and that 60i and 30p both have their own advantages and applications. Canon's statement about using 30p to post to the web doesn't mean that it's a "lesser" format. It's apparently just Canon's way of saying that it edits easier and that if you're planning to edit it might be a better choice. Any comments or insights are still welcomed.

EDIT 2:

I also found this, which certainly sounds more straightforward than anything I've found yet:

I would like to point out that it is not 60 interlaced frames per second, but 60 interlaced fields per second. This distinction should be made to avoid confusion about the actual frame rate of the footage. 60i and 30p are both 30 frames per second, but one is interlaced and the other is progressive. While 30p records 1 full frame every 1/30th of a second, 60i would record 2 separate fields in 1/30th of a second. These 2 fields are brought together as one frame, either when displayed on a TV, or when de-interlaced in your editing software.

If that's the case, I can't really think of any reason not to use the 30p (PF30) mode, as long as Premiere Elements likes it.

[Bob]

...do you have any idea what the difference is between recording in the 60i Standard mode (60 fields per second) as opposed to recording in PF30 progressive, which is recorded as 60i? (I have no idea what the "PF" stands for.) That's very confusing.

Yes, it is confusing. Let's see if this helps:

60i is standard interlaced video. Each frame is composed of two fields -- one containing the odd numbered lines and the other containing the even numbered lines. Each field is recorded sequentially, so that each field represents a different point in time. One practical result of that is a kind of temporal smoothing for moving objects.

PF30 is also interlaced video. The difference is that the fields are recorded simultaneously, not sequentially. That is, the image is captured once per frame and that image is divided into the two interlaced fields. Since there is no motion between the two fields, moving objects will appear more jerky than 60i -- especially with faster motion.

PF stands for Progressive segmented Frame. You will also see it abbreviated as PsF and SF. It's basically a technique to transmit a progressive frame within an interlaced format.

[Dave McElderry]

Thanks. Very nicely explained Bob. You do have a gift for clarity. It does sound then like it would be a good idea for me to attempt to work in the "60i (Standard)" mode if possible. Can you tell me if the Premiere Elements project setting "Full HD 1080i 30" is appropriate for Canon's "60i (Standard)" recording mode? I don't know if I'm just dealing with a nomenclature difference between Canon and Adobe, or if the project setting will work correctly at all. There really aren't any other choices that make sense.

[Steve Grisetti]

It depends on which model of Canon camera/camcorder you're using, Dave.

Is this a Canon DSLR, a Canon digital still camera or a Canon HF series camcorder?

[Dave McElderry]

It depends on which model of Canon camera/camcorder you're using, Dave.

Is this a Canon DSLR, a Canon digital still camera or a Canon HF series camcorder?

Canon Vixia HF G10

[Steve Grisetti]

In that case, the Full AVCHD project settings will work best, particularly when you are shooting in FXP or MXP mode.

Note that your camcorder has the option to shoot in stereo or 5.1 audio, so make sure that your project settings also match whatever audio specs you're shooting in.

[Dave McElderry]

In that case, the Full AVCHD project settings will work best, particularly when you are shooting in FXP or MXP mode.

Note that your camcorder has the option to shoot in stereo or 5.1 audio, so make sure that your project settings also match whatever audio specs you're shooting in.

Okay. Thanks Steve. That means that I'm back to the issue of no full screen in PrEl when recording in 60i Standard. Would you like for me to post a sample?

[Chuck Engels]

I wonder if this is a due to the graphics card Dave?
I had similar issues trying to play blu ray discs on my computer, had to move up to a 1GB graphics card and all was well again. Shouldn't be an issue with Premiere Elements I wouldn't think, especially since you get monitor view just fine.
Going to full screen I believe is put on the graphics card more than the application.

And on a side note, I couldn't agree more with your statement about Bob

Very nicely explained Bob. You do have a gift for clarity.

Bob, you must have been a teacher at some point in your life, maybe you still are.
You have many excellent communication skills and we are very fortunate that you use them here

[Dave McElderry]

I suspect you may be right Chuck, although I don't really need the additional expense right now. Funny how one upgrade leads to so many more sometimes. This has been one of those kinds of things. I'd hate to buy a new video card and find out that that wasn't the problem.

[Chuck Engels]

I'd hate to buy a new video card and find out that that wasn't the problem.

Today's return policies are pretty reasonable, just make sure you can return it if that doesn't fix the problem

[Steve Grisetti]

Then you should post a sample clip so that others can see if they get the same results, Dave.

And, again, can you clarify: You keep saying that you see a blank screen when viewing the file Full Screen. Does this mean you CAN see the video when it's played in the Monitor?

[Chuck Engels]

10-4 on the drivers and QT being up to date. Yes, it's *only* in full screen mode that it doesn't play. It plays fine in the monitor panel. Again, note that if I record in PF30 mode it will play full screen in PrEl.