GPU involved with playback?

[Ken Jarstad]

I am evaluating PE8. I am intrigued with the playback options since there are more available than in PE2. I am especially interested in what benefits I might now have with the new ATI video card (see my signature).

Starting with a DV-AVI timeline, I am able to play back the timeline through Firewire and a DAC-100 (or Pyro A/V Link) to my time-tested 13 inch Toshiba std-def CRT monitor TV and it works very well as always. However, the new, overly sized Monitor window in PE8 does not play smoothly. When I adjusted the window size back to what it probably was in PE2, about 1/2 size or 1/4 the area, it appears to display properly. Is that "normal" in PE8? Shouldn't a 'hot' GPU run just about any video display perfectly smooth?

My secondary PC monitor is a 15 inch LCD HDTV. The new ATI HD 4670 video card supports HDMI output. I can select 'Realtime Playback' and uncheck 'Desktop Video Display During Playback' so only the HDTV is used and the display is 'jerky' or halting. Hardly expected that. And this is a DV-AVI 720x480 4:3 project.

[Ken Jarstad]

Hummmm, no one wants to touch this subject. I posted a question on the Magix forum a few weeks ago asking about GPU use in MEP 15+ and no response there either!

This time I created an HDV 1080i project and imported a 57 second long m2t clip onto the timeline. After reducing the size of the Monitor window, just like I did for the 480i project, the Monitor video played well.

Then, for External Device I selected Monitor2 which is my HDTV, and unchecked the Desktop playback. The video played back choppy. Jump, jump, jump, jump,jump, about as fast as you can say it comfortably. What's up with that? Also, when not playing, the video shrunk about 1/3rd from the right hand side of the screen. It filled the screen properly, only when playing. That is annoying but I suppose I could live with it.

The next test was really interesting. I selected the new (at least for me) DV External Device output option. To my amazement the system scaled down the 1080i video to 720x480 and displayed it properly and smoothly through Firewire to the A/D converter to the SD monitor TV, displaying the appropriate black bars top and bottom. When I checked Desktop Video it played OK with just slight hesitations noticeable.

So far, no crashes. But I bought a newer video card expressly for the GPU performance in video editing. I can't find any definitive information on what software plays well with the newer crop of GPUs. I recall going through this song and dance with the strangely unavailable GPU option in PE2. Does anyone at least have some pointers to tech info I could research?

[Chuck Engels]

Hi Ken,
Sure wish that I had more knowledge on this subject. It is one that there doesn't seem to be a lot of information or knowledge about.

I do know that After Effects takes advantage of specific OpenGL features available on many high end graphics cards, as well as the video memory and additional GPU features. I think that Premiere Pro also has the same functionality but doubt that Premiere Elements does.

Obviously Premiere Elements takes advantage of some features of the GPU because to the available GPU transitions. But as far as OpenGL, utilizing video memory efficiently and other features I don't think so.

[Paul LS]

I use Cyberlink PowerDVD for playing back AVCHD discs or AVCHD files on my home theater PC. PowerDVD uses the video card GPU to take the load off the processor. For example without the GPU acceleration activated the processor utilization is 80%+, with the GPU activated processor use drops to around 5%.

Cyberlink PowerDirector, the video editor, uses the GPU to give a huge increase in rendering speed... cutting the rendering time to one third... see this:
http://www.cyberlink.com/products/power ... en_US.html

[Ken Jarstad]

Hi Paul and Chuck. Nice of you to weigh in.

GPU acceleration does little good if we can't use it for video editing. I know that streaming video throughout the home is an emerging technology that is exciting to contemplate - and GPU accelerated video will be required for display. I even saw an announcement recently for a new series of HDTVs with wireless networking built-in, which would provide for PC or media boxes of various kinds as a source selection. About time!

I have a tech background but not in hardware or software design but it seems logical (to me!) that the monitor facilities of modern video editing applications OUGHT TO CHECK FOR A NEWER GENERATION GPU AND UTILIZE IT AUTOMATICALLY!! N-o b-r-a-i-n-e-r.

Here is what I have gleaned so far:

Posted 9-11-2009 on the Magix Movie Edit Pro forum
under the topic
"video card for AVCHD editing in MEP 15 PLUS, hardware requirements"
From a user named Dunelimo
http://support.magix.net/boards/magix/index.php?showtopic=47544
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Unified Video Decoder 2
HIS Technology, January 1, 2008

The Unified Video Decoder, previously called "Universal Video
Decoder", or UVD in short, is the video decoding unit from ATI
Technologies to support hardware decode of H.264 and VC-1 video
codec standards, and being a part of AVIVO HD technology.

UVD/UVD+

The UVD is based on an ATI Xilleon video processor, incorporated
into the same die of the GPU and part of the AVIVO HD for hardware
decoding videos, along with the Advanced Video Processor (AVP). The
UVD, as stated by AMD, handles decoding of H.264/AVC, and VC-1 video
codecs almost entirely in hardware. The decoder meets the
performance and profile requirements of Blu-ray and HD DVD, decoding
H.264 bitstreams up to a bitrate of 40 Mbit/s. It has context-
adaptive binary arithmetic coding (CABAC) support and dual-stream
decoding support, which would make picture-in-picture possible.

Unlike video acceleration blocks in previous generation GPUs, which
demanded considerable host-CPU involvement, UVD offloads almost the
entire video-decoder process for MPEG-2, VC-1, and H.264. For
example, neither ATI Radeon R520 series' AVIVO nor NVidia Geforce 7
series' PureVideo assist front-end bitstream/entropy decompression
in VC-1 and H.264 - the host CPU performs this work.[1] In addition
to handling VLC/CAVLC/CABAC, frequency transform, pixel prediction
and inloop deblocking, UVD also contains an advanced video post-
processing block. Post-processing includes denoising, de-
interlacing, and scaling/resizing. AMD has also stated that the UVD
component being incorporated into the GPU core only occupies 4.7 mm²
in area on 65 nm fabrication process node.

A variation on UVD, called UVD+, was introduced with the Radeon HD
3000 series. UVD+ support HDCP for higher resolution video streams.
But UVD+ was also being marketed as simply UVD.

UVD 2

The UVD saw a refresh with the release of the Radeon HD 4800 series
products. The UVD 2 features full bitstream decoding of H.264/MPEG-4
AVC and VC-1 video streams, and in addition it also supports dual
video stream decoding and Picture-in-Picture mode. This makes UVD2
full BD-Live compliant.

UVD 2.2

The UVD 2.2 features a re-designed local memory interface and
enhances the compatibility with MPEG2/H.264/VC-1 videos. However, it
was marketed under the same alias as "UVD 2" as the "special core-
logic, available in RV770 and RV730 series of GPUs, for hardware
decoding of MPEG2, H.264 and VC-1 video with dual-stream decoding".
The nature of UVD 2.2 being an incremental update to the UVD 2 can
be accounted for this move.

Codename Product Name UVD Version
RV770 Radeon HD 4800 Series UVD 2
RV730 Radeon HD 4600 Series UVD 2
RV710 Radeon HD 4300/4500 Series UVD 2.2
RV670 Radeon HD 3800 Series UVD+
RV635 Radeon HD 3600 Series UVD+
RV620 Radeon HD 3400 Series UVD+
RV630 Radeon HD 2600 Series UVD
RV610 Radeon HD 2400 Series UVD

I hope this help's
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is intriguing stuff. Apparently, this guy just posted an article published by HIS, which is incidentally the manufacturer of my new video card. If it is advertised as being so wonderful, why can't we make use of it - easily?

Ken

[Paul LS]

Well you can with Cyberlink PowerDirector, the video editor. Those cards are listed as supported in my link above. Just that Adobe is behind teh game again...

[Ken Jarstad]

Oh, I thought it was just a video player. I will take a look.

Here is something I found while searching: Super LoiLoScope VENUS
http://loilo.tv/sp/en/index.html
Seems ideal for hobbyists using those cheapy 720p cams to put videos on YouTube. They prominently feature nVidia's CUDU GPU technology to speed things up.

Am I expecting too much from this GPU technology? Aside from Adobe, is this tech STILL immature?


PS1: Just looked at your Cyberlink page. They actually list what video cards they support!!It is refreshing that a manufacturer lists the supported cards. But, WHY THE @#$%^&*+ DO THEY HAVE TO LIST THE CARDS THEY SUPPORT?? It MUST be immature tech or they would have figured out this stuff by now. Wow, what slow development! We've been promised GPU enhancements since when - 2001 or so?

PS2: Now that I have had a chance to study the Cyberlink page I see that four ATI cards are supported for transcoding only. The nVidia cards are supported for rendering effects. Sigh. Don't you just love STANDARDS?

[Ken Jarstad]

As RJ pointed out in an earlier topic, he turned off the GPU playback option and PE8 then gave him smooth playback. I thought to myself, "Naaaaah, RJ must have an older video card and it just doesn't work for him." But I was wrong. GPU playback is turned on by default in the General Preferences and turning it OFF made the playback of HDV video on my HDTV monitor smooth - mostly, anyway - smooth enough. And adding the checkmark to simultaneously see video in the Monitor window didn't affect it at all.

So......, the question remains......... --> What hardware did Adobe develop PE8 on? Since GPU Playback is selected by default they must have had some assurance that it would work for the end user, right?

We know that Adobe has been developing on Intel hardware for years but what video cards have they been using? Do I need to buy an nVidia card with CUDA technology?

[Paul LS]

http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/515/cpsid_51526.html paragraph 3 dicusses GPU support in PE8... barely.

[Ken Jarstad]

Thanks, Paul!

3. Switch the GPU playback option.

Adobe Premiere Elements 8 is designed to take advantage of display cards with accelerated GPUs. If you are having playback issues, make sure you use the correct GPU playback mode that corresponds with your display card.

* Enable GPU Playback: The setting if you have a GPU-accelerated display card.
* Disable GPU Playback:The setting offers the lowest performance but is appropriate for display cards that do not fully support Direct 3D

My Radeon HD 4670 supports Direct 3D and GPU-acceleration. According to Wikipedia, "Direct3D 11 was released as part of Windows 7." I installed the latest Internet posted drivers at installation time.

So, the question remains, "why does timeline video run more smoothly with GPU Playback disabled??"

[Ken Jarstad]

One last post in this topic.

In addition to the other disappointing problems in PE8, the lack of GPU playback with a brand-new, contemporary, DirectX 11 video card is unacceptable. If there are still problems supporting all GPUs then Adobe should at least have the decency to list the GPU card series it does support. Shall we just keep on buying video cards until we find one that works?

Disappointing