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2008 Video Contest

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Re: 2008 Video Contest

Postby Chuck Engels » Wed Jan 02, 2008 5:45 pm

I can certainly understand where everyone is coming from, but I tend to agree that the big guns don't help if you don't know how to use them.
After Effects is great but if you don't know how to use it what good will it do and how will it make you a better editor? I have After Effects and can't do what Paul did to win the competition last year.

The main problem with having a beginners category is that we have no proof of beginner status or what would actually classify someone as a beginner.
Or we cannot prove that someone did not use other products to produce the video entry. If this was a full time job for us then we could spend the time sorting this all out but it really isn't possible.

We will have a variety of categories to choose from as usual and the software is completely open at this point. We will consider having a Premiere Elements only Category, and possibly a ProShow only category but that is about as good as it is going to get. I wonder if any of the people at the ProShow forum would be interested in a contest?
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Re: 2008 Video Contest

Postby Doreen L. » Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:41 pm

But Chuck the point is that IF you use a software such as After Effects (not necessarily what Paul did), it's an advantage in these contests because, in many ways, it is about the effects. And...please no one get the idea that I'm putting down Paul's video. It was great.

Personally, I would like to see a catagory for PE only. You are correct in saying that there is really no way to determine who is or who isn't a novice but I would think you would get more entrees if people knew they were competing with other people using the same software and the same medium (slideshow separate from video sources). I've seen some great videos in the gallery that weren't entered in last year's competition - they are simple (little bells and whistles), well edited. hold your interest and tell a story (and obviously didn't use any other software). We sometimes forget how difficult this is to do and they probably wouldn't have won a contest when up against the videos all about effects (how'd they do that - that's so cool).

Again, just my 2 cents...with the intentions of getting more people entering this year's contest.
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Re: 2008 Video Contest

Postby Chuck Engels » Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:36 am

I like the idea of a Premiere Elements only category :)
There will also be others, and as usual, the People's Choice and Grand Prize winners.
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Re: 2008 Video Contest

Postby flyrobynfly » Thu Jan 03, 2008 3:55 am

I was wondering with all this effects talk, one of the forum's I belong to is always mentioning how people over use effects. So I'm now starting to think (I keep going back and forth on this because both sides have great arguments) do effects really sway the judges, there can be an over use of transitions and motion. Its not so much the bells and whistles that count I think as its the heart of the story.
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Re: 2008 Video Contest

Postby Bob » Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:14 am

Effects can enhance the story or they can detract from it. I trust the judges to know the difference. And, I have to disagree with the idea that it's all about the effects. Without an idea and a story, you could use all the effects in the world and not win.

I also don't feel having software like After Effects automatically gives you an advantage. Paul's 3D Pan and Scan from last year is a good example. Yes, he used After Effects. But, the exact same effect could have been done entirely in Premiere Elements and Photoshop Elements with just a little more work. Yes, After Effects can do some things that you can't do in Premiere Elements. But, Paul didn't win because he used After Effects, he won because he created a well constructed and effective presentation. You all can do the same. So, get those thinking caps on and have some fun.

Enough said!
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Re: 2008 Video Contest

Postby jeffterm » Thu Jan 03, 2008 9:26 am

I too feel that the skill lies between the chair and the keyboard, and too much concern is spent on what program is being used. The tools are just that; tools. The personal challenge is to figure out how to use what is in front of you in order to get the look and feel and effect you desire into the end project. There doesn’t have to be a single button to get the desired results.

The challenge of creating an effect without a single button or wizard, will actually show you more options and settings that are available inside your own software, that you can then use later for other tricks.

I really do hope that unless there is a ‘technical’ category that these things do not directly influence judging as much as content and style.

-The opinions are just my own. Nothing more.

Someone please remind me, are all the entries presented at the same time? Or are they posted for viewing as they are entered?

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Re: 2008 Video Contest

Postby Steve Grisetti » Thu Jan 03, 2008 9:33 am

In the past, the Muvipix staff has had exclusive access to the videos until the deadline -- at which point they're all posted online for People's Choice votes.
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Re: 2008 Video Contest

Postby Doreen L. » Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:17 am

Hm. I posted a reply but it seems to have disappeared so I'll try again.

Bob - I never said it's ALL about the effects. I said 'in many ways, it's about the effects' and that they have a strong influence. I still stand by those statements.

And I don't want to turn this into a discussion of whether or not Paul should or shouldn't have won the last video contest. That's why I never brought up any specific person in the discussion.

I do think that there are videos whose main focus is about an effect(s) and then there are those that focus on a story. And I'm sure there are people who will disagree sometimes as to what catagory a specific video belongs. I think that putting them in separate catagories is a good idea (maybe even better than a PE only catagory) but I'm sure the muvipix folks don't want to have too many catagories but this is one of the problems of having an open themed contest. I do think it would encourage more people to enter.

Robyn - I do think effects can be greatly overused and I think I'm familiar with what forum you're talking about. Too many times, people use effects just to use effects and the story gets lost. The viewer is just looking at the effects.
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Re: 2008 Video Contest

Postby Steve Grisetti » Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:41 am

Hopefully these video contests will showcase both creative storytelling and technical wizardry.

I believe they have in the past.
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Re: 2008 Video Contest

Postby Chuck Engels » Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:31 pm

And we will have categories and prizes to cover them all :)

Just take a look back at the videos that won the various prizes and awards in 2005, 2006 and 2007, I think they show creativity prevails more than effects. You can see them all in the Gallery. I think the member votes and the judges can tell what is a good video and what isn't, a bunch of effects isn't going to sway the votes, there must be content and it must hold your attention.
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Re: 2008 Video Contest

Postby Doreen L. » Thu Jan 03, 2008 2:10 pm

LOL. You make it sound like I don't think the videos weren't creative. They were very creative.

I checked the link in the gallery to the 2005/2006 video contest winners. There were only three videos that played: Bob Driscoll's flying golf cart, the one with the ferry and the card trick. Weren't there more winners or is something not working right for me?
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Re: 2008 Video Contest

Postby Chuck Engels » Thu Jan 03, 2008 2:23 pm

Didn't mean to make it sound that way, I know you appreciate the videos and think they are creative.
Others may not have seen the previous contest videos, it is more for their benefit that I posted what I did.

There are two tabs, Video and List, click on the List tab and you can play what ever video you want to.
The list must have 30 or more to choose from. The 2006 Overall Winner was Troublemaker, completely done with Premiere Elements
and I don't know if there are any effects in that film at all.

Put me in a competition against Paul using Premiere Elements and After Effects and I would be at a disadvantage, put me in a contest with Paul using just Premiere Elements and I would feel a lot more equal but still at a disadvantage to some degree, Paul is very good no matter what tools he is using.

Put me and Steve in a competition using just Premiere Elements and Steve would have an advantage, put us in a competition using other tools and then I may have a slight advantage. If the question is, 'how do we make it equal for everyone?' I really don't think that is possible at all. Some people will always have an advantage over others because of their creativity and skill, it is up to us to elevate ourselves to be competitive at that level, that's why we are all here isn't it?
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Re: 2008 Video Contest

Postby Doreen L. » Thu Jan 03, 2008 3:17 pm

Thanks. I'll try again and click on the 'list'.

I think it's probalby time to drop the subject cause I don't want to get into specifics. I know you guys want to do the best and make things the most fair to all. It's not an easy job.

I do hope that some of you who haven't entered before, give the contest a shot. Many of you are better than you think. At least IMHO. Tell a story, bring me someplace I've never been before, make me laugh, show me what you care about. And, if you get a chance, take a look at Bill Trantor's video - that's a story with 'heart'.
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Re: 2008 Video Contest

Postby Steve Grisetti » Thu Jan 03, 2008 3:38 pm

We certainly have no shortage of beautiful and exotic locations represented here -- not to mention a wonderful diverse group of talented people!

As Doreen says, don't sell yourself short. Enter, even if just for the fun of it. It's fun and it's free and, who knows, you might even win a nice prize.
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Re: 2008 Video Contest

Postby ridon127 » Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:03 pm

O.K. IF I decide to enter the contest, would it be cheating if I asked a how to question to achieve a desired effect or are we on our own, so to speak?? I have no problem either way, I sometimes manage to get to where I need to be--it just might take a little longer... I am in no way as experienced as most of you, I just think it would be fun and see where I am now and if I have made any improvements... I have always told my kids, it's not whether you win or lose, but how you play the game..
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