Dropped frames

[justmytype]

I am attempting to capture VHS tapes (home movies) using VCR to ADS Pyro AV Link via firewire to PC. However, when I start capturing the preview window freezes off and on frequently and I am getting tons of dropped frames. It's not just in the preview window but in the captured file as well. This also occurs in the preview window even before hitting the capture button and just previewing the movie. I decided to try using a commercial VHS tape and had no problem with that at all. I also seem to have more trouble with dropped frames on my newer tapes that are VHS-C (using adapter) as opposed to older just plain VHS tapes. Any suggestions? Also is there a way in Premiere Elements 4 to find out just how many dropped frames occur while capturing?

[Chuck Engels]

There is no way to tell how many frames are being dropped, may be possible if you capture with WinDV.

The VCR has a lot to do with how well a tape will capture. Do you have another VCR you can test with?
There is very little chance you won't drop any frames but the number should not cause any viewing issues.
1 or 2 frames over 1000's will not even be noticeable, so to have some dropped frames is not a problem and very common when capturing VHS tapes.

There are other capture devices made by Canopus that have Time Based Correction that helps to lower the number of dropped frames.
There are VCRs that have TBC and other features that help to provide better playback also, mostly JVC models.

How old are the tapes? Have you tried connecting the VHS-C camcorder to the Pyro Link and using it to play the tapes?
That is not usually recommended but sometimes the camcorder that did the recording will play the tapes better than a VCR will.

[Steve Grisetti]

It could also be a hardware/operating system problem.

Assuming your system is fast enough to edit video (most off-the-shelf systems sold in the last three years are), are there other factors we should know about?

What operating system are you using? Particularly if it's Vista, has it been optimized to edit video?

Also, are you capturing to a drive other than your C drive?

[justmytype]

On PE 4 I currently have "abort on dropped frames," "report dropped frames" and "use device control timecode" checked. Is that what you mean?

I just don't understand why the commercial video would capture fine and not the home movies, using the same VCR. Some of the movies are only a few years old. Have also tried using my dad's video camera (an old one that uses full-size VHS tapes) and had the same problem. Have tried capturing with WinDV with same problem -- screen keeps freezing off and on. I don't how much Canopus costs, but I really don't want to invest a ton of money, especially if I'm not sure that will fix the problem. I may consider buying a new VCR with TBC, although I know they only come as DVD/VCR combos now. Any suggestions on a good one?

Have any of you ever heard of there being a problem more with VHS-C tapes with adapter than other tapes? Also can't hook up original camera tapes were taken on because it no longer works.

I am using a Dell Dimension 1100 with Windows XP and have captured to my external 500g hard drive with same problem. I have plenty of free space and have captured in the past using Studio without a problem but don't use because I wasn't happy with the overall quality of finished product, i.e. grainy video.

[Chuck Engels]

First, Uncheck "Abort on Dropped frames" and "Use Device Timecode", there is no timecode on VHS tape to use and it only will cause problems.
You don't want the capture to abort on dropped frames either as there will be dropped frames, hopefully not many. You will be able to tell when you watch the video after capture. If you can't notice any dropped frames what difference does it matter if there were any or how many there were?

The quality of a commercial VHS tape is similar to the quality of a commercial DVD, in comparison the consumer versions are not near the same quality. I don't know how good your VHS-C camcorder was but is there any way you can use it to try to capture with rather than putting the tapes into the adapter? Sometimes it is the adapter that can cause problems, or the VCR, and it works better to use the camera that recorded the tapes.

[justmytype]

Have now turned off "abort on dropped frames" and "use device timecode." Tried it again after this and although it's not quite as bad it is still dropping frames and it is noticable. It will cut out like 1 or 2 seconds of footage at a time. When I captured on WinDV it would drop 44 frames within a second or two, so it does make it noticable and choppy. Does same thing on PE4 although since it doesn't give a frame drop count I don't know how many it drops. Every time the screen freezes it drops out that portion of the video for a few seconds and really makes for poor quality. BYW I am capturing to my external hard drive which is 500g, so plenty of room there.

Any other suggestions? I'm really at a loss. Thanks for any help!

[Paul LS]

I dont think you will be able to clear them up with your current set up. As Chuck suggested you could try a second VCR... perhaps you could borrow one. If the drop outs are in the same place on the tape each time, as they were for me, then it is the tape and the only way to overcome it is to try another VCR or a TBC.

[Chuck Engels]

You can also try capturing to an internal drive, there can be throughput problems with capturing to external drives.
Not sure about your setup so it is hard to say for sure but that is a potential problem, especially if the external is connected via Firewire to the same Firewire card are the Pyro is connected to.

[justmytype]

Not sure what you mean by current setup -- PC? Capture device? External drive is connected through USB. I don't readily have access to another VCR unfortunately. I was considering buying a VCR/DVD combo. I've heard some come with TBC. Any suggestions on a good one? The weird thing is I have captured without problem using Pinnacle Studio in the past. I just don't use it because it wasn't always freezing up for some reason. Does anyone know of a way to capture in Studio but edit and encode in Adobe Premiere Elements?

[Chuck Engels]

If WinDV gets dropped frames I don't know how Pinnacle Studio won't, but it is worth a try. You can capture in Studio and then import the files into Premiere Elements, hopefully without a conversion needed or the quality will suffer.
Does Studio capture DV-AVI or MPEG? Someone here will know.

I don't know of any good DVD/VCR combo units, have yet to find one that I really like. The VCRs have gotten pretty low in quality in the past 5 years or so. A good VCR with TBC costs anywhere from $200 up to $1000, the JVCs have what they call Digipure, it helps a ton. You can get a good JVC VCR with DigiPure on eBay for around $150 if you watch for them, but they go pretty quick.

It is worth trying the capture in Studio if it really doesn't drop any frames.

[John 'twosheds' McDonald]

......External drive is connected through USB.......

Try a test capture to the internal hard disc as suggested by Chuck above. Does that make any difference?

[Paul LS]

Easiest way to determine the problem is to determine if you are getting the freeze ups at the same place. Dropped frames are random, if you capture a clip two times and the drop outs are at the same place then it is the tape.

[momoffduty]

I had this problem converting tapes for a friend on one in particular. That is the one tape they watched many, many times. The other tapes hardly watched at all and they did just fine. Swapping out players did help and FF/rewind did help tension the tape. The one with lots of dropped frames, tried to recapture just those segments and not much luck.

[justmytype]

Okay I've watched the tapes a few times while capturing in WinDV and it is doing it in the same place. However, it doesn't just drop a frame or two (that would be fine). The tape freezes for a second or two and drops between 45-50 frames at that point. This is very noticable on the final copy with a jump. I will try to borrow my dad's VCR, but I know it's not an expensive one and not sure if it will make a difference. Do you guys know of any way to correct this problem by manipulating the tape at all? These tapes are not that old and have only been watched once or twice, so I know they're not in bad condition.

[Chuck Engels]

It could just be bad spots on the tape but the VCR can make a difference, even a cheap one sometimes.

Just remember that in Premiere Elements you can cut the video at the bad spot and add a transition or something to smooth it out.
50 frames isn't even 2 seconds so it can't be too bad