Is this normal?

[peggig]

It's been a while since I've posted here, but you guys were so helpful in the past, I thought I'd see if you can help me now.

I had so much trouble after installing PRE8, that I decided to go back to PRE7. Adobe Tech Support was of no help whatever but suggested, when reinstalling or installing a new version of PRE, to create a brand new admin account on the computer, and run a registry scrubber application that used to be available for download from a Microsoft KB article, before reinstalling PRE (or installing a new version). The registry scrubber was no longer available for Vista, so I scrubbed my registry manually by searching for keys or values with "Premiere" or "PRE" in them and deleting them as appropriate. I did this before going back to PRE7, and everying worked OK.

The problem is, I have projects created with various versions of PRE (3, 7, & 8), and I occasionally have to go back and edit some previous project. Since PRE7 won't load projects from PRE3 or PRE8, every time I have to do something with a previous project, I have to go through the tedious process of unregistering and uninstalling whatever version I have installed, searching the registry and deleting any keys/values that have to do with Premiere Elements, deleting the admin account under which I installed that version, creating a new admin account that I haven't used before (I keep a list of account names I've used previously), and reinstalling whatever version I need. When starting a new project, I always go back to PRE7.

Now I'm having a new problem with PRE7. I've only used it before for HDV projects, but I've found both PRE7 and PRE8 to be virtually unusable for HDV because they're so painfully slow and crash so often. So I decided to use standard definition for my latest project. I have a Canon HV40, and I shot the video in HDV, but locked it to standard definition for output to the computer, and created a standard definition project in PRE7. Everything works fine in the editor. The problem is when I export it to my hard disk or share it to YouTube directly from PRE7.

When I export it, the resolution is unacceptably low and the video looks terrible. When I upload it to YouTube (or share it directly to YouTube), the only resolution available for playback is 240p. Three years ago, when I was editing in PRE3, the standard definition videos I exported and uploaded to YouTube could be played back at 240p, 360p, or 480p, with the default at 480p. But, when exporting standard definition video in PRE7, the only playback option is 240p. I've tried exporting to various formats, but the STD DVD, WMV, and MPEG1 formats all export with the same unacceptably low resolution, even after setting the quality to High. MPEG2 doesn't work; the resulting file is unplayable. Other high def formats also don't work.

This doesn't make sense to. I'm using a much higher resolution camcorder than I was three years ago, and a later version of PRE, but the video it exports looks much worse than the video I exported from PRE3 because of the low resolution. Is there anything I can do to get PRE7 to export standard definition video at the same resolution PRE3 did?

Thank you in advance for any help you can give me.

[Chuck Engels]

What Share options are you trying/using?
Did you start with a standard Widescreen project? The HV40 Video will always be widescreen so if you have only a Standard 4:3 project that could be part of the problem.

I would imagine that the problem with editing HDV is your computer more than anything, it takes a pretty powerful computer. I can edit HDV from the HV40 with my laptop, it is a little slow but not too bad. The laptop is a Core 2 Duo 2.0 GHZ with 4 GB of RAM and a pretty decent video card for a laptop, nVidia Quadro FX350M.

[George Tyndall]

The problem is, I have projects created with various versions of PRE (3, 7, & 8), and I occasionally have to go back and edit some previous project. Since PRE7 won't load projects from PRE3 or PRE8, every time I have to do something with a previous project, I have to go through the tedious process of unregistering and uninstalling whatever version I have installed, searching the registry and deleting any keys/values that have to do with Premiere Elements, deleting the admin account under which I installed that version, creating a new admin account that I haven't used before (I keep a list of account names I've used previously), and reinstalling whatever version I need. When starting a new project, I always go back to PRE7.

Adobe allows you to have multiple versions of Elements installed--you just can't have more than one open at once.

I don't know why you were told to uninstall one version before installing another.

When I was editing HD with XP I had all sorts of problems during the editing process, including out of memory warnings and crashes, but with the machine in my signature and the PRE/PSE7 bundle, I almost never have any issue of any kind. IMO, the 7 bundle is Adobe's best so far.

Suggestions:

1. Be sure you have used the correct preset for your timeline

2. Implement Steve's tips for getting the most out of whatever hardware you are using. My personal experience is that, of all his tips, by far his most useful was to use Page Scroll while editing your timeline. http://www.muvipix.com/products.php?subcat_id=46--far left column, second row from the top.

[RJ Johnston]

Use the Quicktime share preset. You will need to go into advanced settings to change settings.

Select this: Share > Personal Computer > Quicktime > Local Area Network (LAN). Then click the Advanced button to get to the settings. Make sure the video codec is set to h.264 and that the bit rate is 8000 (not 800). Change the resolution to 864 x 480. With that, you should get 240p 360p and 480p to select on Youtube.

If you have only standard definition video on the timeline, don't use a HD preset. Premiere Elements doesn't upscale very well. If you want to upload high definition HD to youtube, then you should have high definition video on the timeline to being with.

[peggig]

Thank you all for your responses! I love this forum. You guys are great.

Did you start with a standard Widescreen project? The HV40 Video will always be widescreen so if you have only a Standard 4:3 project that could be part of the problem.

Yes, I did start with a widescreen project.

I would imagine that the problem with editing HDV is your computer more than anything, it takes a pretty powerful computer.

I've got a Core 2 Quad processor at 2.4 GHz with 4 GB of RAM. My video card is NVidea GeForce 9500 GT. (I sometimes get a message in the lower left hand corner of the PRE window saying my video driver isn't configured properly, but I check regularly for driver updates, and I do have the latest driver installed. Diagnostics says it's working properly.)

[peggig]

I don't know why you were told to uninstall one version before installing another.

I think Adobe said to do that because they really couldn't figure out how to solve the problem and that was their last ditch when-all-else-fails response.

1. Be sure you have used the correct preset for your timeline.

I do always specify the correct project settings. Is that the same as using the right presets for the timeline, or are there some other preset specific to the timeline?

2. Implement Steve's tips for getting the most out of whatever hardware you are using. My personal experience is that, of all his tips, by far his most useful was to use Page Scroll while editing your timeline.

I've read Steve's tips and set the timeline Page Scroll, when editing in HD, but it's still painfully slow and crashes often. (I don't have that problem when editing in std def, which is why I decided to try that for my current project.) I suspect having more RAM would help, but 4GB is the most I can use with a 32 bit system. I'd like to upgrade to 64-bit Windows 7, but I understand PRE doesn't run on 64-bit, and I can't afford to upgrade to Premiere Pro.

[peggig]

Use the Quicktime share preset. .... Make sure the video codec is set to h.264 and that the bit rate is 8000 (not 800). Change the resolution to 864 x 480.

Thank you very much, RJ! It worked! (I assume you meant 854 x 480, for the 16:9 aspect ratio.) WRT setting the bitrate to 8000, would there be any advantage to setting it even higher? Why is 8000 the magic number?

If you have only standard definition video on the timeline, don't use a HD preset. Premiere Elements doesn't upscale very well. If you want to upload high definition HD to youtube, then you should have high definition video on the timeline to being with

HD editing in PRE is painfully slow and crashes too often, at least for the type of projects I mostly do. Even if I create a bunch of small 10-15 minute projects, output them to MPEG and then import the MPEGs into a master project, it's still too maddening to deal with even on the smaller projects. So I decided to try standard definition this time. The only reason I was trying to use the HD presets for this project was because I couldn't get a better resolution using the NTSC DVD Widescreen or Windows Media presets, but the QuickTime solution solves that problem.

Thank you again!

[Chuck Engels]

There has got to be some simple answer to your problem with HDV projects.
Premiere Elements loves the video from an HV40, much easier on the system than AVCHD video is. With your specs it should not be a problem at all to edit 10 - 15 minute projects, or 30 minute projects for that matter. Are you using video from anything other than the HV40?

[RJ Johnston]

Regarding pixel dimensions, I use multiples of 16 when rendering to h.264. H.264 decoders are suppose to perform better (per Microsoft and DivX) at those 16x multiples. 854 would be a multiple of 8. After doing some calculations, 848 and 480 would be multiples of 16 and closer to a 16:9 ratio than would 864 and 480.

Regarding bitrate of 8000, you could go up to 10000 (Main profile, Level 3).

[George Tyndall]

I'd like to upgrade to 64-bit Windows 7, but I understand PRE doesn't run on 64-bit, and I can't afford to upgrade to Premiere Pro.

Win7 Home Premium 64-bit with the i7 processor and the PRE/PSE7 bundle are truly a marriage made in heaven--they work flawlessly with one another.

Examples:

1. I've put as many as 500 hi-def slides on the PRE7 timeline along with a 60-70MB WAV audio file and edited that timeline in full-screen mode on my 52-inch Samsung without so much as a hiccup

2. I recently placed fourteen MPEG2 1920x1080i 30 files on the PRE7 timeline and burned a 1-hour 57-minute Blu-ray disk without a hitch (just shy of 25GB, including a HD 14-button menu that I downloaded here at muvipix).

[peggig]

There has got to be some simple answer to your problem with HDV projects.Premiere Elements loves the video from an HV40, much easier on the system than AVCHD video is. With your specs it should not be a problem at all to edit 10 - 15 minute projects, or 30 minute projects for that matter. Are you using video from anything other than the HV40?

No, the HV40 is the only video camera I have.

I wish I could figure out a way to edit HDV projects in PRE without it being painfully slow and crashing often. I started an HDV project a couple of years ago in PRE8, but ran into so many problems with crashing and output anomalies and ridiculously slow response time, that I abandoned the PRE8 project and re-created it from scratch in PRE7. It was a one-hour video with about 15-20 minutes of extras on the DVD. I broke it down into multiple projects, each under 10 minutes, but it was still so frustrating an experience that I swore I'd never attempt it again. Here's the finished project, munus the DVD extras. (The DVD also has animated map transitions between segments.)

Last year, I figured I must have been overreacting, and decided to try it again, this time in PRE8. (I also figured I must have been overreacting to the flakiness of PRE8, and assumed my previous problems were due to trying to do too much in one project.) I produced another one-hour documentary, also with extras on the DVD. Again, the process was so onerous, due to the painfully slow response time any time I did anything at all, that I swore never to attempt it again. I worked around the frequent crashes by getting in the habit of saving after every change I made, but it was still extremely frustrating. Here's the finished project, minus the DVD extras.

Now, I'm starting a new project but, having twice had the same tortuous experience editing in HDV, I'm not going to go for three. The editing process is so much easier and less painful in standard definition. I'm still shooting the footage in HDV, just in case I discover some way to edit in high definition that won't be so intractable. But I won't go through the same experience again with PRE7 or PRE8. I wonder if upgrading to a 64-bit system with more memory would make it faster and more stable. If so, I should do that right away, before investing any more time in the standard definition project.

[peggig]

Regarding pixel dimensions, I use multiples of 16 when rendering to h.264. H.264 decoders are suppose to perform better (per Microsoft and DivX) at those 16x multiples. 854 would be a multiple of 8. After doing some calculations, 848 and 480 would be multiples of 16 and closer to a 16:9 ratio than would 864 and 480.

Regarding bitrate of 8000, you could go up to 10000 (Main profile, Level 3).

Thank you again, RJ! I created a custom preset using 848 x 480 (closest to 16:9 that's evenly divisible by 16) and a bitrate of 8000. I'll use this whenever I export standard defintion projects for YouTube.

What are the advantages/disadvantages of higher bitrates, and why would you not recommend greater than 10000?

[peggig]

Win7 Home Premium 64-bit with the i7 processor and the PRE/PSE7 bundle are truly a marriage made in heaven--they work flawlessly with one another.

That's good to know! Can you tell me if PRE7 can take advantage of more than 4GB of RAM when running on a 64-bit system? I know it runs in 32-bit compatibility mode, so I assume it's still bound by the same 32-bit memory limitation. But please tell me if I'm mistaken.

I suspect that, if I could access more RAM, it would solve the performance and stability problems I always encounter with HDV editing, but I'd hate to upgrade to a 64-bit system, and re-create my project from scratch in HDV, only to discover the performance wasn't any better than it was on my 32-bit system.

[George Tyndall]

Win7 Home Premium 64-bit with the i7 processor and the PRE/PSE7 bundle are truly a marriage made in heaven--they work flawlessly with one another.

That's good to know! Can you tell me if PRE7 can take advantage of more than 4GB of RAM when running on a 64-bit system? I know it runs in 32-bit compatibility mode, so I assume it's still bound by the same 32-bit memory limitation. But please tell me if I'm mistaken.

I suspect that, if I could access more RAM, it would solve the performance and stability problems I always encounter with HDV editing, but I'd hate to upgrade to a 64-bit system, and re-create my project from scratch in HDV, only to discover the performance wasn't any better than it was on my 32-bit system.

The 4GB of RAM limit is imposed by the 32-bit OS, Win7 Home Premium 64-bit has no such limitation. If you wish to build your own machine, there is a recent post which describes what you can get for each price range (see the link to jackfalbey's post below). If you, like me, need someone else to build it, here is the machine I would suggest, and the reasons why:

HP dream system.JPG

1. 64-bit OS
2. 9GB RAM--you want 3 sticks of 3GB each (rather than 4 sticks of 2GB like I have) for best fit with the other hardware
3. You want 2 separate internal eSATA HDDs, one for your OS and programs, the other for your files--so you do NOT want them set up as RAID 0 and will need to change that--you will need also 2 separate external 1TB HDDs--one to back up each of the internal HDDs. If your machine is like mine, it will have two ports for external SATA (eSATA) drives. See the image below for what I am using.
4. You need that fabulous Graphics Card in case you want some day to move up to Premiere Pro and take advantage of its Mercury Playback Engine--for the specs on why it is so fabulous (number of CUDA cores, DDR5, etc), and also instruction on how to make it work with the Mercury Playback Engine, go to the following link: http://www.studio1productions.com/Articles/PremiereCS5.htm
5. You need the bigger power supply to handle that 400-watt graphics card
6. You need the TV tuner because it includes the Remote in case you want to play your creations with Windows Media Center without your keyboard and mouse.
7. If you wish to burn Blu-ray disks, don't get the one offered by HP. Get the one in my signature, which comes with CyberLink software.

Verbatim eSATA.JPG

Here is the link to the recent post on building your own machine, by price range: http://www.muvipix.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9747&p=85708&hilit=build+your+own#p85708

Hopefully, the author of that post, jackfalbey, will chime in on this post, as he knows TONS more on this topic than I do. Note from his post that $750 may get you everything you need. Add to that the cost of having someone build it for you plus the following, which are free with the HP: shipping, 2y hardware warranty, 1y software support, 7.1 sound card (mine is optical audio out). The HP also has 2 eSATA ports for external drives and the USB is 3.0--I'm not sure re jack's machines.



P.S. That Verbatim eSATA drive comes with 2 eSATA and 1 USB cables, so don't order those separately as B&H suggests.

[peggig]

The 4GB of RAM limit is imposed by the 32-bit OS, Win7 Home Premium 64-bit has no such limitation.

The OS doesn't have the 4 GB limitation, but I think the application still does. I Googled this and found a number of articles that address this. An article titled How much memory can an application access in Win32 and Win64?, on http://www.viva64.com, says:

A 32-bit program compiled with the switch /LARGEADDRESSAWARE:YES can allocate up to 3 Gbytes of memory if the 32-bit Windows is launched with the /3gb switch. The same 32-bit program launched in a 64-bit system can allocate about 4 Gbytes (actually about 3.5 Gbytes).

So it sounds like a 32-bit program can get about a half a GB more memory utilization on a 64-bit system than on a 32-bit system. An article titled How much memory can a 32 bit process access on a 64 bit operating system?, at stackoverflow.com, explains why.

A 32-bit process is still limited to the same constraints in a 64-bit OS. The issue is that memory pointers are only 32-bits wide, so the program can't assign/resolve any memory address larger than 32 bits.

I once read about a user having problems even installing PRE7 on a 64-bit system, and that's actually what has kept me from upgrading to 64-bit Windows 7. It sounds like that might have been due to some separate issue, though. Knowing that PRE7 will run at least as well on 64-bit Windows as it does on 32-bit Windows, I think I will upgrade. It's also possible that some of my issues may be due to registry anomolies from uninstalling and reinstalling so many times, and wiping my system and starting clean should clear up any of those potential issues as well.

However, I'm not sure whether I want to try HDV editing again. Going from 3 GB of memory usage to 3.5 GB is only about a 17% improvement, and I don't think that's enough to make HDV editing viable for me, given my past two experiences with it. I can't afford a new machine now, so I'm just going to upgrade the OS on my current machine. It won't be ideal, but it should be an improvement over what I have now.

Thanks again!