Upgrading Computer: Two Questions for Tech-Savvy Members

[George Tyndall]

I've got an older XP MCE2005 computer with USB 1.0 ports. I asked my technician about upgrading to USB2.0, and he says that would require changing the motherboard. He wants to install an AMD2 motherboard that has a built-in graphics card and that outputs to dual DVI plus HDMI.

He says I also need to change my 4GB of RAM, and he suggested going with 8GB instead of only 4GB like I have now. He says that this system will be about as fast as my other XP MCE2005 computers, all of which have an ASUS motherboard, Intel Q6600 processors and separate NVIDIA video cards as described in my signature below.

Here are my questions:

1. Given that XP MCE is a 32-bit OS, isn't it true that it cannot use more than 4GB of Ram?
2. Because the cost is probably similar, would I be better off asking him to do the upgrade using the same hardware as I have in my other XP MCE computers?

[Chuck Engels]

1. Yes, very true. It would need to be a 64bit OS to use more than that.
2. Are you saying to use your old hardware in building your new machine? Or use the same models and brands as your old machine but not the same parts? Those parts are probably not available anymore as hardware barely sticks around for a few months before a newer model is released.

Unless he is going to build a machine for under $300 George you can find some pretty nice equipment out there for around $299 these days. As long as you are just looking for something to do internet and email there is no reason to pay more that a few hundred dollars. You can get a dual core CPU, 2 GB of RAM, a 320 GB hard drive, and a DVD burner, all for around $300 from any computer store like Micro Center or Frys, or from Dell or HP.

[Paul LS]

If all you really want is USB2 ports why not just buy a 4-port PCI USB-2 card to install in a spare PCI slot.

[Chuck Engels]

I agree with Paul if that is all you are trying to accomplish

[George Tyndall]

Are you saying to use your old hardware in building your new machine? Or use the same models and brands as your old machine but not the same parts?

Chuck and PaulLS, what I wish to do is to create another machine that will have the same capabilities as the one in my signature, in other words, one that I will probably keep offline and use exclusively for media work, including video editing.

I know for sure that a similar motherboard is available and I'm pretty sure the Q6600 CPU is still available plus a similar video card. But the technician wants to install an AMD2 CPU with built-in RAM and video card (2DVI plus 1 HDMI) instead.

My own preference is to have the same hardware as described in my signature so that I can readily clone the OS and apps/drivers from that computer to the one he will work on. Then, if the one fails, I can readily switch to the other (all my data is on external HDDs).

[John 'twosheds' McDonald]

In light of the likely costs, why not just buy a new system unit and keep your 'old' Q6600 system unit as a back up in case of problems?

[George Tyndall]

In light of the likely costs, why not just buy a new system unit and keep your 'old' Q6600 system unit as a back up in case of problems?

John, for a variety of reasons, I wish to stick with XP MCE 2005, which is the OS on the subject computer. Like the one in my signature, it will be used exclusively for work with media and will never go online. (For going online, I'm purchasing an inexpensive machine that comes wth Win7 and IE8 pre-installed.)

[Bob]

You might want to look for a different computer tech. It sounds like he wants to push you in his direction rather than yours, and his recommendation for 8GB Ram for XP MCE 2005 is either naive or he's intending to install something other than what you want -- Vista 64 or Windows 7 Home Premium editions perhaps (which include media center by the way). If the same motherboard is still available and he can get XP MCE 2005, a simple $20 PCI card will be all you need to add USB 2.0 ports.

If you are trying to mirror your existing system, you don't want to be jumping from Intel to AMD. You'll be changing chipsets and drivers which will affect how the OS interfaces with the hardware. Also, don't go with onboard video -- that doesn't have dedicated video memory and will use up some of your RAM. If your video card is different from the old system, your drivers for that will be different also. The new system might be OK, or it might not as far as functionality goes. But, you definitely won't be able to clone from one system to the other. If you are up to making that kind of change, you might as well make the jump to a new Windows 7 system.

[George Tyndall]

If the same motherboard is still available and he can get XP MCE 2005, a simple $20 PCI card will be all you need to add USB 2.0 ports.

Bob, he's telling me that the existing motherboard has been discontinued. My trusted Fry's guy also told me that the part is no longer available. And he is telling me that the reason for the 8GB of RAM is that the AMD2 motherboard with onboard NVIDIA card will be sharing its RAM with the video card--no separate RAM on the video card like the system in my signature.

In addition to adding USB 2.0 ports, I want the machine to have the same video-editing capability as the one in my signature, which it currently does not have--it is an older machine with a Pentium (R) CPU. I don't recall whether the video card is onboard or separate. He is telling me that, if I follow his recommendation, the machine with AMD2 motherboard will be capable of editing video "at least as fast" as the machine with the Q6600 CPU that is described in my signature.

If you are trying to mirror your existing system, you don't want to be jumping from Intel to AMD. You'll be changing chipsets and drivers which will affect how the OS interfaces with the hardware. Also, don't go with onboard video -- that doesn't have dedicated video memory and will use up some of your RAM. If your video card is different from the old system, your drivers for that will be different also. The new system might be OK, or it might not as far as functionality goes. But, you definitely won't be able to clone from one system to the other. If you are up to making that kind of change, you might as well make the jump to a new Windows 7 system.

He also said that a mirror image of the system described in my signature won't work on the machine that he is working on. He says that, after installing the RAM and motherboard/video card (outputs: 1DVI, 1 VGA and 1 HDMI), he will update all the drivers for my existing hardware and make sure that everything is working perfectly before giving it back to me and that will be the time for me to create a new mirror image.

BTW, he is the tech that Square Trade Warranty (which warrants ebay merchandise) uses in my part of LA. He did a very good job on the machine that I have described in my signature. He says that he had to pass a series of exams before Square Trade selected him.

He is asking for a total of $740 for parts and installation of the AMD2 motherboard/video card with 8GB or RAM plus a 500GB second internal HDD. If I will end up with a machine that is as fast as the one in my signature, does that seem like a reasonable price to pay?*

____
*I will not be going online with this or any of my other video-editing machines, so the fact that Micrsoft will end support for XP is not a concern for me.

[Bobby]

...You might want to look for a different computer tech...

I'm back after a few days away and couldn't agree more with Bob...

[Chuck Engels]

Sorry George but I agree with the Bobs

[tiny]

A word on shared RAM.

A Windows 32 bit system can only address a little over 3 gigs of RAM. It does not matter if the RAM is dedicated to the video card, or shared, the 3gig limit is the combined total.

[Bob]

A 32 bit OS can address 4GB of RAM. Devices with on-board memory that is visible to the OS (for example, video cards) are memory mapped to physical addresses essentially taking the place of any RAM at those addresses. If, for example, you have 4GB RAM and install a video card with 1GB dedicated on-board memory, you are using only 3GB of that RAM. If you have other devices that are memory mapped you will be using even less. RAM in excess of 4GB cannot be utilized by a 32 bit OS for any purpose. To access RAM over 4GB, you must have a 64 bit OS. If the motherboard/bios allows for dedicated memory to be mapped outside the addresses utilized by RAM when using a 64 bit OS, the entire amount of installed RAM can be used.

Applications don't allocate RAM directly, they use virtual memory. The amount of virtual memory that can be addressed by 32 bit applications is also 4GB, but the amount actually available for allocation is somewhat less -- typically in the range of 3GB or so. That is divided between the system and application with the default being 2GB for the application with the remainder going to the OS.

[George Tyndall]

A 32 bit OS can address 4GB of RAM. Devices with on-board memory that is visible to the OS (for example, video cards) are memory mapped to physical addresses essentially taking the place of any RAM at those addresses. If, for example, you have 4GB RAM and install a video card with 1GB dedicated on-board memory, you are using only 3GB of that RAM. If you have other devices that are memory mapped you will be using even less. RAM in excess of 4GB cannot be utilized by a 32 bit OS for any purpose. To access RAM over 4GB, you must have a 64 bit OS. If the motherboard/bios allows for dedicated memory to be mapped outside the addresses utilized by RAM when using a 64 bit OS, the entire amount of installed RAM can be used.

Applications don't allocate RAM directly, they use virtual memory. The amount of virtual memory that can be addressed by 32 bit applications is also 4GB, but the amount actually available for allocation is somewhat less -- typically in the range of 3GB or so. That is divided between the system and application with the default being 2GB for the application with the remainder going to the OS.

Whoa! Thank you, Bob, for a VERY thorough explanation.

BTW, I don't mean to suggest that he is insisting on his way of doing things. He is simply proposing a system that he says will be "at least as fast" as the one in my signature. The reason that he is making the proposal is that the Intel Q6600 processor that I have in my other machines is no longer available--and even if it was, "the correct motherboard is only available in used condition." (That is what he said when I informed him that I found a new-in-the-box Q6600 processors on ebay.)

When I relayed to him the information you gave me, he replied that it would be no problem for him to reduce the RAM on the motherboard to 4MB and install instead a separate NVIDIA GE Force video card with 1GB of memory for the same price as the deleted 4MB of RAM.

Here is his detailed proposal:

--HDD--500MB Gigabyte 7200rpm SATA internal HDD--$80
--RAM--4GB Kingston DDR2 800MHz--$120
--CPU--AMDX4 2.86GHz--$150 ("at least as fast as the Q6600")
--MOTHERBOARD--AMD2 X4 version ("upgradable to AMD3 if you want to upgrade to a faster CPU later, which I don't recommend doing now because the faster one is very expensive and still 1st generation and I always wait for the second generation before recommending to a customer")--$100
--VIDEO CARD--NVIDA GE Force with 1GB memory--$120
--Labor--$220

Total: $790

He reiterated that he will update all the hardware drivers to ascertain that the machine is working well with my OS, XP MCE2005, before returning the machine.

I advised him I will get back to him after I consult once again with my "video-editing experts."

[Bobby]

That price is nothing out of the ordinary. You can get the same price for a new PC at the local Best Buy store or from Dell, etc.

But if you buy a new one, you still have the older one (albeit USB 1.0) to play around with or donate to someone needy. If you upgrade the old one, you can't do that.