Computer Speed comparison

[AVITRY]

I just finished testing a 15 minute dv-avi file on my computer using PE version 3 to encode it to the default DVD 1 pass VBR 1500 6000 8000 preset. Then I did the same file on my buddies computer who also has PE3.

Here are the results.

My computer is a socket 478 Pentium 4 3 ghz with 3 gigs of memory it took 13 minutes to encode to mpeg.

My friend's computer is a socket 775 E6700 dual core with 4 gigs of memory. Same file 4 min, 30 sec.

Both PCs using Windows XP Pro 32bit

This was encouraging to see as I was getting mixed answers to how much impact cpu would actually have on encoding.

At Passmark.com my computer's benchmark is .... LOL .... 491

His computers benchmark is about ...... 2200

I'm thinking of either an i3 which is benchmarked at about ....4400

Or the i5 which I believe was ..... 7200 or so.

Now, I never multitask, other than surfing the web while encoding. So, I don't really know if 4 cores and 95watts are necessary to get much more speed from encoding dv-avi to mpeg.

I'm thinking the i3 dual core at 65watts will probably do just as well, give or take a few minutes, since I doubt I'll be ever tapping into the other two cores.

Any informed thoughts?

thanks all.
joe

[Chris B]

This kind of question gets asked a lot so please indulge me. The speed of operation of a CPU is measured in several ways.

The basic measurement is Clock speed - Everything else rests off of this.

Add to that the number of real (or virtual with hyper-threading) cores. More cores equals faster processing - for systems that can take advantage of this. some workloads are not well multi-threaded and don't do well. Some do great. Video encoding seems to be one of those that do well with more cores (provided the implementation is good).

Lastly (and by no means least) is the architecture of each of those cores. Different architectures do different things well and it depends how well the software that you are using works on the architecture that you have. The pentium 4 architecture was a gamble by Intel that didn't pay off (counting on higher clock speeds than were never achieved) - and by most accounts is a bit of a dog. So much so that the follow up processor to the P4 was based on the P3 architecture. The measure of performance here is "instructions per clock".

Now this is where it gets technical - sorry. Modern x86 processors do not directly run the x86 instruction set. Instead they break the machine level instructions down into smaller "micro ops" and execute these. In ideal situations each core in the Core I5/7 processors can execute 4 instructions per clock cycle. In some cases these relate to real x86 instructions - so a 4 core i5 processor can execute 16 instructions per clock cycle. An 80486 could do (best case) 1 per clock cycle so even if you were to run them at the same clock speed the i5 would be 16 times faster.

It helps to think of a processor as a production line. Every production line has bits that do different things and the trick is to make sure that all the bits have something to do. To do this processors employ all sorts of clever techniques such as "out of order execution" where the processor will re-order program instructions to make them more efficient. Another is Branch prediction where a processor will try to "guess" the result of a decision that a program makes. Incredibly modern branch predictors are around 80% success rate - i.e. if the choice is go left or right - they choose correctly 80% of the time. To think that all this is going on inside your chip in dynamically in real time is mid boggling. I hope that this goes some way to illustrate why modern processors are so much faster given that they cock speeds are not significantly higher that the previous generations.

So - to answer your question - you may not multitask - but your programs almost certainly will (given the trouble that people have had running older versions of PE on modern operating systems there's probably an upgrade involved there as well) so for things like video encoding 4 cores will show an appreciable speed increase over 2 - and you friends E6700 will look positively pedestrian. Get the fastest processor you can afford since most video encoding is processor limited.

[AVITRY]

Chris, thanks for that explanation! I do so little else with my computer that I'm also very worried about purchasing the Windows 7 64 bit OS. You may or may not know, I'm so hooked on DVDWorkshop, an older video authoring program that has features I use all the time for the one client so to speak that I have, that I hate the thought of giving it up.

I first thought get the professional version so I can use XP mode with DVDWorkshop and perhaps even keeping PE3 since it also is all I need. I'm in and out of the editor. Trim front, back, add a swap channel audio effect, a quick "The End" title and then I use the program to encode to mpeg2.

Then, I considered staying with Windows XP Pro. Since, as you know there are so many freeware programs that can be useful. I just don't want to put this computer together only to find I've created a monster of a mess with the programs I use not running, driver, etc etc.

How much of a waste would this upgrade be if I just let it run under Window XP Pro 32 bit?

I'm thinking. Biostar TZ68A+ MB (which surprisingly is among the best reviews on Newegg and is just about 100 bucks) i5 2500k CPU and just using the GPU on board the chip with my current XP Pro.

The older I get, I guess the less I want to deal with computer problems. I'd like to assemble this thing, load my older programs ( if at all possible) and continue on. From what I saw with that socket 775 of my friends using XP, I am hoping the i5, even with XP would be a great speed improvement for encoding.

Oops, one more concern / confusion I have. This motherboard can handle DDR3 1600 (oc) or DDR3 1333 without overclocking it. I don't understand all this overclocking, and I wonder in the real world, how much more performance would I get from OC 1600 than I would from just getting the 1333 memory and not looking for trouble.

Thanks again Chris!

[Chris B]

Chris, thanks for that explanation! I do so little else with my computer that I'm also very worried about purchasing the Windows 7 64 bit OS. You may or may not know, I'm so hooked on DVDWorkshop, an older video authoring program that has features I use all the time for the one client so to speak that I have, that I hate the thought of giving it up.

If you can get a 7 install disk (msdn download or similar) and install on your current machine to a spare drive then you could check out how well it does with your current apps.

I first thought get the professional version so I can use XP mode with DVDWorkshop and perhaps even keeping PE3 since it also is all I need. I'm in and out of the editor. Trim front, back, add a swap channel audio effect, a quick "The End" title and then I use the program to encode to mpeg2.

I don't know how well this kind of thing works - if you download "virtual PC" from Microsoft you can install on your current system and install XP inside the virtual machine and check how the program works. It won't be the same as working on 7 in xp mode - but it might give an indication.

Then, I considered staying with Windows XP Pro. Since, as you know there are so many freeware programs that can be useful. I just don't want to put this computer together only to find I've created a monster of a mess with the programs I use not running, driver, etc etc.

How much of a waste would this upgrade be if I just let it run under Window XP Pro 32 bit?

Windows 7 comes with lots of stuff "built in" that you needed freeware apps to do on XP - as such don't install anything until you're defiantly sure it doesn't already exist. The Movie Maker is a considerable step up.

I'm thinking. Biostar TZ68A+ MB (which surprisingly is among the best reviews on Newegg and is just about 100 bucks) i5 2500k CPU and just using the GPU on board the chip with my current XP Pro.

Get the 2500 - not 2500K if you're not going to overclock. You'll save a few bucks.

The older I get, I guess the less I want to deal with computer problems. I'd like to assemble this thing, load my older programs ( if at all possible) and continue on. From what I saw with that socket 775 of my friends using XP, I am hoping the i5, even with XP would be a great speed improvement for encoding.

I can sympathise with this - perhaps you a "just works" kind of person... Windows 7 IS different from XP - and you need to embrace the difference to use it efficiently - otherwise you just end up fighting it. These days when I have to go back to XP I miss 7's features. XP will be considerably faster - but you're installing a 10 year old legacy product (which you can't buy any more). You won't get security updates past April 2014.

Oops, one more concern / confusion I have. This motherboard can handle DDR3 1600 (oc) or DDR3 1333 without overclocking it. I don't understand all this overclocking, and I wonder in the real world, how much more performance would I get from OC 1600 than I would from just getting the 1333 memory and not looking for trouble.

Short answer - not much. Remember that for XP you can only use a maximum of 4GB of ram (of which only 3ish will be usable).

[John 'twosheds' McDonald]

Also don't forget that in Windows 7 Pro and Ultimate versions, most 32 bit applications will run in the Windows on Windows (WOW) environment.

I am happy to be corrected here but I don't think that the 'Home' versions of Windows 7 have the WOW facility..

[Chris B]

WOW has existed since Windows NT 4.0 (the 32 bit versions use WOW to run 16 bit applications). WOW64 in included in all 64 bit versions of Windows (including xp 64 bit and server 2003) and allows 32 bit applications to run on 64 bit platforms. The technology includes the wonderful new verb "thunk".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_on_Windows
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WoW64
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunk_%28compatibility_mapping%29

[John 'twosheds' McDonald]

....and there I was thinking it was something new. Thanks for the clarification, Chris.

[Chris B]

Actually - what you don't get on 64 bit windows implementations is the original WOW so you can't run 16 bit applications on Windows 64. I suppose officially windows Ultimate and professional do include WOW and home doesn't since you get a WOW layer running inside the XP virtual machine - but it's more that slightly twisted!

[AVITRY]

Well ... I pulled the trigger, feeble as it is, and one large step closer to poverty, I pulled the trigger with the best I can come up with. I sure hope I don't get a box full of duds trying to save a few bucks on the chosen parts. Here they are ....

*
shipping from NJ, USA

. 2

LITE-ON DVD Burner - Bulk Black SATA Model iHAS124-04 - OEM
Item #: N82E16827106289
Iron Egg Standard Return Policy

$33.98
($16.99 ea)

. 1

Adobe Premiere Elements 10
Item #: N82E16832105974
Iron Egg Refund-Only Return Policy

$49.99

. 1

Rosewill RCR-IM5001 USB2.0 75 in 1 internal Card Reader w/ 3 ports USB2.0 Hub / eSATA port / Extra silver face plate / Molex ...
Item #: N82E16820223108
Standard Return Policy

$19.99

. 1

BIOSTAR TZ68A+RCH LGA 1155 Intel Z68 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard
Item #: N82E16813138320
Iron Egg Standard Return Policy

$114.99 (before $15.00 mail in rebate)

. 1

Rosewill 2+1 Port Firewire/1394a Low-Profile PCI Card (Cable Bundle) Model RC-501
Item #: N82E16815265002
Standard Return Policy

$9.99

. 1

SeaSonic M12II 620 Bronze 620W ATX12V V2.3 / EPS 12V V2.91 SLI Ready 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply
Item #: N82E16817151095
Standard Return Policy

$89.99

. 1

Crucial Ballistix sport 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 Desktop Memory Model BL2KIT25664BA1339
Item #: N82E16820148418
Memory Standard Return Policy

$29.99

. 1

Galaxy 43GGS8HX3SPZ GeForce GT 430 (Fermi) 1GB 128-bit DDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready Video Card
Item #: N82E16814162067
VGA Standard Return Policy

$69.99 (before $15.00 mail in rebate) Only chose this card to save 1 Gig of system memory rather than use the integral GPU from the chip since 32 bit Windows can't use more than 4 gigs.

. 1

ADATA Speedy 4GB Micro SDHC Flash Card w/ SD Adapter Model AUSDH4GCL4-RA1
Item #: N82E16820211433
Standard Return Policy
free with purchase of PE 10

Shipping from TN, USA

. 1

HEC 6XR8 Black 0.8mm Thickness SECC ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
Item #: N82E16811121020
Standard Return Policy

$49.99
Subtotal $468.90
Tax $0.00
UPS 3 DAYS $26.32
Order Total $495.22

And .... From Tiger direct, 1 - i5 2500k processor. $209.

By the time I got the guts to pull the trigger, Newegg sold out on the 2500k for 199 with free shipping, so I ended up further biting the bullet for 209 plus 7 bucks shipping.

I decided on the "K" version because it had the 3000gpu engine and it was only a few bucks more. I'm going to test the performance difference and loss of system memory using it, and the dedicated card.

No hard drive cause I have more 500gig SATA hd's around here than I know what to do with.

I only got 4 gigs of memory, because I remain too scared to install Win7 64. I know murphy is out there waiting for me and I don't want him to get me. Thanks for your help!

joe

[Chris B]

Galaxy 43GGS8HX3SPZ GeForce GT 430 (Fermi) 1GB 128-bit DDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready Video Card
Item #: N82E16814162067
VGA Standard Return Policy

$69.99 (before $15.00 mail in rebate) Only chose this card to save 1 Gig of system memory rather than use the integral GPU from the chip since 32 bit Windows can't use more than 4 gigs.

The memory on that card needs to be "mapped" into the 4GB of system memory - so you are likely to loose some of it either way

I've installed a 32bit Windows and set a relatively small "graphics memory" in the BIOS (128MB AFAIR). I believe that this doesn't hard limit the memory - just the size that some older programs see. More modern programs will see more memory available and dynamically allocate it.

Here's an article all about it.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/hardware/gg487348

[AVITRY]

The memory on that card needs to be "mapped" into the 4GB of system memory - so you are likely to loose some of it either way

So so obvious, and yet I never considered that. If XP 32bit can only see 4 gigs of memory, it doesn't matter much where it's seeing it from. And, since the i5 has that dedicated GPU waiting to go, I'm guessing there would be zero gain with that little discrete card. That may be going back.

Thanks Chris, and thanks for the link.

ps. I changed motherboards. After downloading the Biostar manual to get a head start figuring out what to do, I saw that this manual looked like it was written by a 5th grader ... (from another country) No reference to specific default settings in the bios, or even and step by step of the bios screens. A real poor attempt at an owners manual. I figured, if the manual stinks this much, I'll be the board isn't much better. So, I sent in another sheet, and got the Asus P8Z68-VPro/Gen3 board. That manual was understandable to even a neophyte like me. We'll see ... good I guess ...

[AVITRY]

Just a little update, I totally threw out the idea of running XP. I ordered 16gigs of Corsair mem and I'll be running Win7 Ultimate. I'm going to try xp mode