They're here! More Muvipix.com Guides by Steve Grisetti!
The Muvipix.com Guides to Premiere & Photoshop Elements 2019
Not quite sure what our site has to offer?
Check out the
Muvipix Video Tour

Best bang for the buck question

MiniDV, DVD, Hard Drive, 8 mm, High Def, brands, import / capture techniques, settings ... talk about camcorders in here.

Best bang for the buck question

Postby Madphule » Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:48 am

Hello! and thank you for letting me join your Forums.
I hope this is the most appropriate location to start this thread in, if it is not I apologize now.

My office provides technical and soft skills training, as part of this we often make short 5-10 minute training videos. We have a need to get all new gear for a shoot at the end of the month (double booked the one set of gear that belongs to anther one of our offices ](*,) ) . I have been tasked with finding the best bang for the buck in the current video hardware realm, so I'm looking for any advice that might help.

Basic gear needs:
1) Video Camera (looking at entry level Pro Camcorder or DSLR)
2) Tripod
3) Lighting - I know lighiting is going to be very important especially on the darker Industrial shoots.

Potential shoot environments:
1) Office environments (Small spaces with florescent lights and window natural light)
2) Semi-Industrial (Manufacturing with clean bright Facilities - usually high ceilings and powerful overhead lights)
3) Heavy Industrial (Manufacturing with dirty dark Facilities - usually high ceilings and little to no overhead lights - Steel manufacturing, etc,)

Gear will be used regularly (several times per month) and will need to travel by any means necessary.

We view footage on location on Windows 7 laptops and edit in Final Cut Pro X on two Macs (Mac Pro - Early 2009 - Quad-Core Intel Xeon 3500 series processor). So shooting in a format that can be easily viewed and ported between machines without having to convert the files is optimal (anything that will make the work-flow closer to seamless, or current solution requires the footage be covered from tape to Hard drive and then imported and "unshrunk" - don't know why it happens but when the HD video is transferred from tape to Hard Drive it gets set to 4:3 and then we have to take it back to 16:9 in post).

Videos are typically Pro-Narrated (Post-Production) and have a similar flow and feel to the TV show "How it's made". but it would be good to have the ability to mike the subjects and record live, if the situation calls for it.

The majority of our work is filmed and used in the USA and presented online, though we do provided DVDs if the client asks.

I have a Cannon T3i for personal use, so I tend to favor the DSL route, but I'm not sure if that is the best solution for this work.

As for budget, I need to keep the price as low as possible while still presenting good quality HD video. I showed my boss the price for T41 and he looked fine and then I showed him the price for the Canon XF105 and he swallowed his tongue and passed out - JK. Basically if its not too over the top for small shoots like this; and I would be shooting myself in the foot for going cheaper, then I can make a case for it.

Any and all advice/suggestion is appreciated. My father shoots pictures and my aunt (momoffduty) does awesome things with video, so I have started to dabble, giving me just enough info to be dangerous :) !
Just call me Jeremy
- The Mad Phule
User avatar
Madphule
New User
New User
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:38 am

Re: Best bang for the buck question

Postby Steve Grisetti » Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:58 am

An AVCHD camcorder would certainly be your best solution, as far as camcorder is concerned. Canon makes excellent AVCHD cams starting at $600.

You can use higher end DSLRs to shoot video -- but that can mean a much higher investment than a straight camcorder. A good DSLR that shoots video will cost at least $1000.

Tripods are pretty easy to come by. Especially if you're using a handheld camera or camcorder, you probably won't need to spend over $80 for a very good one.

As for lighting, try Cowboy Studio. They sell everything from individual pieces to kits.
http://www.cowboystudio.com/

Here's a nice set for the type of work you seem to be doing. It costs $215 and includes a handy carrying case!
http://www.cowboystudio.com/product_p/2000wboomkit.htm
3.6 ghz i7-7700 running Windows 10 Pro 64-bit with 16 gigs RAM and a 2 terrabyte HD. Also iMac 2.6 ghz dual-core, 4 gigs of RAM, running OSX El Capitan and Boot Camp Windows 10 64-bit.
User avatar
Steve Grisetti
Super Moderator
Super Moderator
 
Posts: 13110
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 5:11 pm
Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin

Re: Best bang for the buck question

Postby Dave McElderry » Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:10 am

Welcome Madphule! Lots of good resources here, and if Cheryl is your aunt you can't go wrong. :wcm:
Be yourself; everyone else is taken.

Studio XPS 435T, 2.93 GHz i7-940; Win 10-64; 24GB RAM; Samsung 512GB SSD (OS); two 1TB HDDs; GeForce GTX 550 Ti 1GB
User avatar
Dave McElderry
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 4128
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:18 am
Location: Lost In Middle America

Re: Best bang for the buck question

Postby Madphule » Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:04 pm

Thank you Steve, I will check out the links posted.

As for the lighting we have a similar lighting set-up for the office set-up but It does seam bright enough for the Semi-Industrial and Industrial Settings

I was trying to insert an image to show one of our shoots. But it appears either through new user restrictions or my ineptitude I cannot.

Basically I'm concerned that in darker more open facilities that the florescent light kits wont offer enough light.
Just call me Jeremy
- The Mad Phule
User avatar
Madphule
New User
New User
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:38 am

Re: Best bang for the buck question

Postby Madphule » Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:06 pm

Thank you Dave,

And for a proper name I'm Jeremy, been using the handle Madphule for over 20 years on these type boards, just hard to drop :)
Just call me Jeremy
- The Mad Phule
User avatar
Madphule
New User
New User
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:38 am

Re: Best bang for the buck question

Postby Dave McElderry » Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:11 pm

You say that you're looking for an "entry level pro camcorder." Do you really mean pro, because that would be a completely different category than the consumer line that Steve's talking about. May I ask what your budget is for the camcorder itself?

Okay, Jeremy it is. You might want to go into the User Control Panel and add a signature that would include that. I like being able to call people by at least their real first name.
Be yourself; everyone else is taken.

Studio XPS 435T, 2.93 GHz i7-940; Win 10-64; 24GB RAM; Samsung 512GB SSD (OS); two 1TB HDDs; GeForce GTX 550 Ti 1GB
User avatar
Dave McElderry
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 4128
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:18 am
Location: Lost In Middle America

Re: Best bang for the buck question

Postby Bob » Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:05 pm

Welcome, Jeremy!

DSLRs are increasingly used for video and they have advantages such as being able to use a variety of lenses including long focus lenses to get a shallow depth of field. You can also increase the ISO setting. But there are some issues. Most DSLRs have a rolling shutter -- the focal plane shutter and curtain form a slit which travels across the sensor. With a rolling shutter, you are not exposing the entire frame at the same instant. If you are shooting a moving object, this can cause a wobbling, sometimes called the "jello" effect. If the camera is moving, you can get a skewed image. Camcorders, on the other hand, have a global shutter which exposes the entire frame at the same instant eliminating skew and wobble. Another problem is heat. The longer the video segment, the more the heat generated by the sensor. Some early video recording DSLRs have a very short recording time because of that. That's been improving.

The next time you go to an industrial shoot, take along your T3i and shoot some trial video to see if rolling shutter is going to be an issue for you.

One thing to consider with a camcorder is perception. If your clients are external (i.e. from a different company), using a camcorder that looks too much like a consumer level product may give the impression that you are not a professional and that may affect satisfaction and return business.

LIghting an industrial "cave" is a daunting issue. I've noticed that shows like "How it's Made" avoid longer shots and concentrate on close to mid-distance shots that are easier to light. Can you get by with the closer shots that can be easily lighted, or do you need those longer shots?
User avatar
Bob
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 5861
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 4:49 am
Location: Southern California, USA

Re: Best bang for the buck question

Postby Madphule » Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:13 pm

Thank you Dave and Bob!

I'm trying to find out from the "Video Guy" what our current camera is (I don't know my camcorders but a quick internet search provided an image that looks just like the one he uses a Cannon XL-H1), and my manger what his pain point is, but with the Holiday week they are hard to nail down.

The clients are all external. We have shot some footage with a consumer level camcorder before, but it was a quick hit project that was just a couple of minutes tossed in flash file, so it was not frowned upon. I'm a bit concerned about the perception as you have mentioned. I'm personally partial to the DSLR because of the photos I shoot, but need this to be primarily for video camera. I shoot lots of Lacrosse, baseball, sports video of the kids with the T3i, but was unaware of the rolling shutter issue (I'm also concerned about the perception with a DSLR - "you brought a Camera to a video shoot?")

Most of our individuality shoots are close-up and only a few seconds to a minute long, lots of cut scenes with stills and establishing shoots). This is especially true of the industrial shoots. We start with an establishing shoot of the worker holding the tool where you see them from about their shoulder to the knees. Then we cut to a still of the tool, followed by a close up of the workers hands using the tool. So for the most part we can push the lighting down to a small area. There are some cases where we will need to show a full milling machine or part of the process that would be larger but still limited to manly one object, we typically do not perform long pans of the entire facility or similar.

Manager stopped by so now I have a price point for the camera alone: $800-1,200.00 though he did mention that the quality must be there and asked me if he was way off mark.
Just call me Jeremy
- The Mad Phule
User avatar
Madphule
New User
New User
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:38 am

Re: Best bang for the buck question

Postby Dave McElderry » Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:02 pm

Canon Vixia HF G10 (AVCHD). List price $1500, but can be had for $1230. Read all about it.

http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/ ... xia_hf_g10

http://www.amazon.com/Canon-G10-Camcord ... B004HW7DZM

It won't have the look that Bob was talking about, but the low-light peformance is tops in a camcorder of its price range, and it has good manual controls but an awesome auto mode too. Reviewers say it's at least as good as the XA10 in picture quality, except that it doesn't have the handle and XLR connectors (which do help provide that "look"). The internal mics give better audio than some of the reviews would have you believe, but you'll likely want a separate external mic anyway. Has 32 GB internal memory and two SD slots for additional memory cards. With extra batteries you can record for many hours.
Be yourself; everyone else is taken.

Studio XPS 435T, 2.93 GHz i7-940; Win 10-64; 24GB RAM; Samsung 512GB SSD (OS); two 1TB HDDs; GeForce GTX 550 Ti 1GB
User avatar
Dave McElderry
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 4128
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:18 am
Location: Lost In Middle America

Re: Best bang for the buck question

Postby Madphule » Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:25 pm

Awesome Dave,
Looks like I have some reading to do :) Thank you!
Just call me Jeremy
- The Mad Phule
User avatar
Madphule
New User
New User
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:38 am

Re: Best bang for the buck question

Postby momoffduty » Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:30 pm

Welcome Jeremy to Muvipix! :-D And thanks guys for helping my nephew. :-D Maybe he'll loan me his T3i!
aka Cheryl
Intel i7 3770, Windows 7 Pro w/SP1, 64 bit, Intel 520 Series SSD, 32G RAM, 2 – 2T RAID, (1T external), GTX 550 Ti graphics
User avatar
momoffduty
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 7084
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:43 am
Location: near St. Louis

Re: Best bang for the buck question

Postby Chuck Engels » Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:31 pm

Any relative of Cheryl's is a relative of ours !!
Welcome to the best forum in the known universe Jeremy :meet:
1. Thinkpad W530 Laptop, Core i7-3820QM Processor 8M Cache 3.70 GHz, 16 GB DDR3, NVIDIA Quadro K1000M 2GB Memory.

2. Cybertron PC - Liquid Cooled AMD FX6300, 6 cores, 3.50ghz - 32GB DDR3 - MSI GeForce GTX 960 Gaming 4G, 4GB Video Ram, 1024 Cuda Cores.
User avatar
Chuck Engels
Super Moderator
Super Moderator
 
Posts: 17672
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 10:58 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: Best bang for the buck question

Postby John 'twosheds' McDonald » Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:34 am

Just wanted to say welcome to Muvipix! :wcm:
i7 6700k, Z170-P mobo, Win10 64 bit, 32Gb RAM, Samsung 500GB NVME 970 Evo SSD x 2, LG BD Burner, Akasa card reader, Dell U2719D Monitor, Sony HVR-A1, Synology DS412+ 8TB NAS, Adobe CS6.
User avatar
John 'twosheds' McDonald
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 3923
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 11:57 am
Location: Carini, Sicily

Re: Best bang for the buck question

Postby Bob » Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:41 am

Take a look at the Canon XA10 also. http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/professional/products/professional_cameras/hd_video_cameras/xa10#Overview. About $500 more than the HF G10, but this is a professional camera with handle and supports external XLR microphones.
User avatar
Bob
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 5861
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 4:49 am
Location: Southern California, USA

Re: Best bang for the buck question

Postby Madphule » Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:39 am

Thank you all for your warm welcome. And thank you Cheryl for sending me this way!
Just call me Jeremy
- The Mad Phule
User avatar
Madphule
New User
New User
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:38 am

Next

Return to Camcorders 


Similar topics


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests