AVCHD VS. HDV

[dalelpaq]

My Panasonic PV GS-400 bit the dust - just 2 years old!!

My only choice right now is a new cam and it seems like Hi Def is the only way to go. Considering a Canon Vixia HG30.

Can anyone clue me in as to what the difference between AVCHD and HDV is? Do I care?

Can I import a Hi Def video into PE4 and, after editing, burn a SD (yes, standard def) DVD? (Blueray will come once I pay for the cam!).

Any other insights into the latest and greatest features are I should look for will be appreciated. Thanks, Dale

[Steve Grisetti]

AVCHD uses the H.264 codec and stores video as MPEG4s, so it stores more video in a smaller file.

HDV stores hi-def data as MPEG2s.

The main logistic difference, as far as video editing is concerned, is that HDV stores the video data on tape -- so you can streaming capture it into Premiere Elements, just as you can miniDV.

AVCHD stores the data on a hard drive or flash drive. So, at least as far as Premiere Elements is concerned, you download the data as big chunk files instead of streaming it in and capturing only what you want.

For my money, the convenience of streaming capture would keep me in the miniDV and HDV camp.

But others may feel differently.

[Maxine370]

I've had to start working with AVCHD for a client and the other precaution is to make sure you have the power to support it.

I have a 3.2 Ghz dual core processor and 2 GB of ram and I get low system memory after about 30 minutes of footage from AVCHD. PLus I cannot see the footage stream as I scrub making it almost impossible to edit.

It seems the cameras are getting way ahead of the software (ACVHD not natively supported until Pre Elements 7 and Pro CS4) and the computers.

[Paul LS]

Just picking on one of Steve's points...

the convenience of streaming capture would keep me in the miniDV and HDV camp

what do you mean Steve, I would have thought the opposite... the "inconvenience" of stream capture. Having to wait an hour before you can start editing compared to downloading in seconds.

[Steve Grisetti]

Good point, Paul.

I usually shoot much more than I capture (and use a fraction of what I capture). So, when I'm capturing video, I'm usually only capturing 5 or 10 minutes here and there -- the cream of my video crop. Sometimes I'm just recording a 2-minute narration into my camcorder and capturing that.

I would hate having to download a huge 20 minute chunk of video just to use a 2 minute segment.

So maybe it's a matter of workflow.

[sidd finch]

But what about a quality difference. I always thought that the HDV was a better quality image than an MPEG4. The other factor is storage. It is nice to just have all those tapes to go back to if you want to import earlier footage. Having only an electronic image means that storage is a real consideration. I know that DV tape is 13 GB per hour I am not sure of the file size of MPEG4.

Sidd

[Chuck Engels]

HDV is larger than 13GB per hour and the quality of the AVCHD or M2T (MPEG) files are pretty much identical as far as quality goes.
From what I have read it looks like HDV is about 40GB per hour, but there seem to be some conflicting reports. I haven't paid any attention to it myself, I just know that it takes a lot more room because the clips are a lot bigger.

Premiere Elements 7 will handle AVCHD pretty well if you have a computer that is up to the task.
Dual Core for sure and at least 2 GB of RAM, that goes for any HDV editing.
I wouldn't use AVCHD files with any version of Premiere Elements before version 7.

[Paul LS]

Actually Chuck the HDV standard, 25MB/s MPEG2 is 13GB per hour, the same as DV-AVI... you can capture an hour of each on a mini-DV tape. AVCHD takes about 8GB per hour at 15MB/s. As Chuck says although AVCHD uses less space it is more highly compressed and there is little difference in quality. the more highly compressed nature of AVCHD means you need more processor power to edit it. That said Adobe have done a great job in optimizing PE7 for AVCHD support... better than a lot of other AVCHD editors that I use.

[sidd finch]

Thanks Chuck & Paul,

I remember that there were issues regarding the down converting of HDV to STD video in that the general consensus was that the camcorder did a better job of down converting the HDV to STD video than having PE do it in the program.

Does this mean that an HDV down converted to STD in the camcorder will look better than AVCHD that can only be down converted in PE??

Not sure if this is apples to apples

Sidd

[Maxine370]

Chuck,

Have you actaully worked with ACVHD files in Pre El 7? I ask becasue I am wondering if it is something other than my system that is giving me trouble.

I have a dual core 3.2 GhZ processor and 2 Gb RAM and yet i can not get a fluid stream of the footage when I play it in Pre El 7 (got a copy to work with client's AVCHD files). Impossible to edit this way. At least the non-linear way. I assumed my system was just not up to the task.

ANy input.

[Chuck Engels]

I have not, only M2t files, but Paul has and I'm sure he can help.
How big is your project?

[Paul LS]

What clips are you using Beth, which camcorder do they come from? AS Chuck says I have done quite a bit of work with PE7 and AVCHD files from various camcorders.... both 1440x1080 and 1920x1080 with and without DD 5.1 audio. When running on a 2.66GHz Core 2 Duo I get fluid movement, however 1920x1080 DD 5.1 clips do use more processor power than he 1440x1080 clips. Typically during playback from the timeline (un-rendered clips, so red line above) for 1440x1080 clips the processor usage is around 65%/70% going up to 80% with 1920x1080. During editing my page file goes up to about 1.3GB and RAM usage is at about 1.5GB.

Obviously when editing on my Quad Core 2.4GHz system there is more margin in processor usage, but editing fluidity is similar between the two systems.

As I said in a previous post I find PE7 very responsive compared to other AVCHD video editors.

[Maxine370]

Hi Paul-

Sorry to have hijacked this thread I should know better but at least it may be helpful to someone deciding about AVCHD.

Camera is a Sony HDR TG1 but it is not mine - I get the MTS files from the client. They're in a folder - AVCHD\BVMD\Stream.

Do you think it matters that I'm not going straight from camera to computer? Or even direct from memory stick. They are 1920 x 1080.

Thanks.

Beth

[roadsideron]

I have a canon HV20 and I originally tried to edit a greenscreen piece in Studio 12+ and it was impossible to do that even with a q6600 quad core cpu. I bought PE4.0 and I was able to key the segment and it did it relatively fast. The quality was execllent. I then used the camcorder to down covert it to see what it would look like and it looked much better than if I had used my Panasonic GS 400. I've only worked with HDV and after hearing all the problems with the other format I'm perfectly happy to stay with my Canon and it's tape HD format. I also created a DVD piece from the HD project and it too was much better than if I had done everything in Standard definition. I ordered PE7.0 and I'm looking forward to using it. I also ordered the manual that Steve wrote.

[Paul LS]

Hi Beth, I put three minutes (five .mts clips) from the HDR-TG1 clips on to the timeline of a FULL HD AVCHD 30i project preset, so 1920x1080 stereo. The playback from the timeline on my 2.66GHz Core 2 Duo was fairly smooth (not much different to when the clip was rendered) but processor usage was high. I copied one clip twice, I rendered one and not the other. Certainly when scrubbing the timeline you can see a difference in smoothness. The rendered clip streams but the unrendered clip judders along. However1440x1080 clips play back more smoothly.... but to be expected I guess.