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Archive format

Postby bobfranz » Sat Sep 21, 2019 2:38 pm

15 years ago I converted almost all of my 8mm video footage to .avi format based on best practices at the time. Now the .avi footage seems like it needs to be converted before it becomes extinct. What is the best strategy for long term storage and archiving?
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Re: Archive format

Postby sidd finch » Sat Sep 21, 2019 3:05 pm

For format AVI is one of the most well-known audio-video formats. Still the best quality video format in many situations, AVI video format is holding its own compared to more modern video file formats. It is still widely supported and deserves consideration from any serious audio-video user or creator. If you are not convinced you could always use Handbrake and convert.

If you have the money, Cloud storage with Mircosoft of Google or someone reputable in original format. if not cloud then

1. Solid state storage
2. Hard Drive storage



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Re: Archive format

Postby bobfranz » Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:25 pm

Thanks! Well that saves me a ton of work. I'm transferring the AVI files from about 100 DVD's to my HD now to organize and edit. Then I'll be archiving on a portable SSD.

For my 8mm video that has NOT yet been digitized, should I use AVI? From what you said (and the fact that everything else was converted to AVI) that would be my inclination.
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Re: Archive format

Postby Steve Grisetti » Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:48 pm

I need to note that AVI is just an envelope file. It can be made up of any of thousands of codecs, so it's impossible to talk about AVIs in general terms. There's a world of difference between a DV-AVI, an uncompressed AVI, a Divx-AVI and, say, a Cinepak-AVI.

I wouldn't worry too much about converting your existing AVIs. If you've been archiving your video as AVIs, they're likely DV-AVIs, so leave them as is.

But you might consider saving your future videos as MP4s, which give a better picture at a smaller file size.

MP4s are also progressive scan, which means that the frames are cleaner looking when viewed on computers and current TVs. DV-AVIs used an interlace scan to create their video frames (It was state of the art at the time), which don't look quite as clean when viewed on most of today's devices.
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Re: Archive format

Postby John 'twosheds' McDonald » Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:26 am

bobfranz wrote:...Then I'll be archiving on a portable SSD.

Things may have chganged, or this might be a false memory, but I vaguely recollect reading a couple or more years ago that SSD storage can degrade over time if the SSD is not regularly used.
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Re: Archive format

Postby Peru » Sun Sep 22, 2019 9:26 am

John 'twosheds' McDonald wrote:
bobfranz wrote:...Then I'll be archiving on a portable SSD.

Things may have chganged, or this might be a false memory, but I vaguely recollect reading a couple or more years ago that SSD storage can degrade over time if the SSD is not regularly used.


I remember reading that as well, although the time frame for that was quite a long time.
I would not trust a portable SSD for a single archive. Multiple on site and off site archives is my strategy.
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Re: Archive format

Postby sidd finch » Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:19 pm

Did some research and this is what I found:
https://www.compuram.de/blog/en/the-lif ... take-care/

How long does an SSD last?

Someone who aks this question in relevant internet forums, mostly gets a variety of most diverse opinions. If you deal with the expected life span of an SSD, you first have to have a look at the variable storage types of SSD drives. Three SSD storages are available: Single Level Cell (SLC), Multi Level Cell (MLC) and Triple Level Cell (TLC). These names already adumbrate the difference. The storage type MLC saves two bits per storage cell, the TLC type three bits per cell and the SLC type only one bit. SLC flash storages haven’t become accepted yet because of their horrendous prices.

For the storage types and their life span applies the following: The more data per cell is saved, the higher the wear level is. That means, at first the life span of storage types possibly can be linked to the write cycles. Storage cells of type MLC last about 3,000 write cycles. In the first moment, that necessarily doesn’t sound much. However, in comparison to conventional HDDs, the mechanics of SSD don’t degrade when only reading data. This means, by only reading data, an SSD will not wear out, which brings us to the conclusion that it depends on the write and delete processes.

With “Wear Leveling” SSDs have made a big step towards more robustness. SSDs of the new generations apportion data on the whole storage. By this, all storage cells are treated with care as good as possible. Meanwhile, some SSDs have a so-called SLC mode. We are already familiar with the term from the storage types as explained above. Per storage cell, only one bit is written on an SLC SSD. When an MLC or TLC drive runs in SLC mode, it virtually emulates an SLC storage and writes only one bit per cell at the beginning. Once the storage space isn’t sufficient anymore, the drive switches to working in the normal storage procedure mode.

Let’s undergo an endurance test with modern SSDs, which means constantly writing on these flash storages at highest speed by using special tools. By now, SSDs achieve outstanding results in such tests. Only after years there are storage cell drop outs. However, even for these inoperable cells flash storages have a successful solution. Current SSDs have reserve capacities. These storage spaces aren’t available to the user, but are used to repair damaged cells, so to speak. The defect cells are replaced with brand-new reserve cells; this procedure is called “Bad-Block-Management”. Thus, SSD storage cells in normal operation last a lifetime.




To calculate the life span:
Image

The life span of a Samsung 850 PRO with 1TB then results in: (This isn’t a guarantee, but a good forecast.)
Image

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Re: Archive format

Postby Chris B » Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:35 pm

There was some comment about their longevity when powered down but it seems overly hyped. It seems hard drives are better (although not perfect) at long term storage.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/9248/the ... -retention

I have been keeping track of my SSD and my current average rate of use is about 36GB written per day - or about 13TB per year. The warranty on the drive is 300TB written - which I'm due to pass some time in 2041...
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Re: Archive format

Postby bobfranz » Sun Sep 22, 2019 8:28 pm

Thanks! As usual I'm glad I checked in here before getting too far along. Here's what I plan at this point: 1) keep the DVD's (DV-AVI digital) and 8mm tapes (analog) as primary sources of my old home movies, 2) after transferring the DV-AVI files to my PC's HDD, copy them them to a portable SSD (back-up to HDD), 3) convert my few remaining 8mm tapes to MP4 for archiving.

That seems like adequate multi sources for my needs. Reading through the responses and links has given me a level of clarity and confidence I didn't have before.
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Re: Archive format

Postby Steve Grisetti » Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:49 am

Kinda cool that we're thinking hundreds of years, when it comes to archiving our videos. Particularly when photography itself is really only about 200 years old.

When I was a young man, I had my film developed at Buckeye Mart. The photos they processed then are now fading away to nothingness. I may outlive them! So one of my side projects has been copying them to electronic versions and enhancing them before they're gone completely!
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Re: Archive format

Postby sidd finch » Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:27 am

1) keep the DVD's (DV-AVI digital) and 8mm tapes (analog) as primary sources of my old home movies


You might consider picking up an extra machine that plays 8mm tapes so you have a way to play back the video in case one breaks.

On a side note I imagine that all the conservation and keeping of video and pictures I have will be just tossed out as garbage in future generations. Their thinking is...... Who are these people and what is all this stuff.... I don't recognize anyone. Let's just toss it all so we have room for our new teleporter machine..... lol

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Re: Archive format

Postby bobfranz » Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:01 am

I have a good 8mm deck that I'm keeping. I often think that I'm the only one that will ever look at most of this footage. But it's there...
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Re: Archive format

Postby bobfranz » Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:14 am

"You might consider picking up an extra machine that plays 8mm tapes"

Something I hadn't thought about...
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Re: Archive format

Postby John 'twosheds' McDonald » Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:51 pm

bobfranz wrote:"You might consider picking up an extra machine that plays 8mm tapes" Something I hadn't thought about...

Sorry to disagree but I really do believe that format conversion has to be the way to go as long as the 'format conversion' technology' is available.

For example, no good having lots of DVD video media if in ten/fifteen years there are no DVD video players. Think of VHS standard video tapes - where are the VHS players now? Not in the shops but Ebay if you are lucky.
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Re: Archive format

Postby Peru » Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:52 pm

sidd finch wrote:
On a side note I imagine that all the conservation and keeping of video and pictures I have will be just tossed out as garbage in future generations. Their thinking is...... Who are these people and what is all this stuff.... I don't recognize anyone. Let's just toss it all lol
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Unfortunately, I'm imagining the same scenario. :(
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