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Rendering to new track questions

Talk about the Sony Vegas line of products.

Rendering to new track questions

Postby Uncle Ben » Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:20 pm

I am working on a project that stretches across a 7-year period. As I complete a given year, I render to a new track and then delete the original effect-supercharged footage.

But the downfall in doing this is that there's no going back, is that correct? Or am I missing something in how to properly use this functionality in Sony Movie Studio? In other words, before I render to track, I better make sure that what I have is all that I want in that footage; that all the effects, video clips and photos, are all there, that all the transitions are there, and that all the audio tracks are there ... If not, once I render it and delete everything except for the newly created track, it's too late.
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Re: Rendering to new track questions

Postby Steve Grisetti » Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:39 pm

A smarter move might be to do your whole movie as smaller 3-5 minute long segments. As you finish each segment, you output it -- then you combined the finished pieces in a final mix video.

What you output each segment as depends on whether you're creating a video for DVD, for BluRay or for another medium.
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Re: Rendering to new track questions

Postby Uncle Ben » Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:17 pm

Steve Grisetti wrote:A smarter move might be to do your whole movie as smaller 3-5 minute long segments. As you finish each segment, you output it -- then you combined the finished pieces in a final mix video.


OK, but please help me understand, because that's important to me. It's nice to learn about all the functionality potential of this software; but when it comes to logistics and strategy, I am a little uneasy. How is it that six 5-min long segments would be working smarter than working with two 15-min segments?
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Re: Rendering to new track questions

Postby Paul LS » Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:17 am

I think you have answered your own question when you said... "As I complete a given year, I render to a new track and then delete the original effect-supercharged footage." Instead of rendering to a new track you could render out the given year... that is effectively what Steve is saying and you are doing.

That is how I generally work... I work on a specific section/period of the video then render it out and then compile the finished movie with these sections. It stops Vegas becoming bogged down with all the effects and any large images etc etc. Rendering to a new track and rendering out are effectively the same thing.
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Re: Rendering to new track questions

Postby Uncle Ben » Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:22 am

Steve, Paul ... thank you. I think I dig it, finally! I've rendered two years to new tracks. When I rendered the first year, I deleted the old tracks but retained NewTrack1 on the timeline and started working on year 2.
When I rendered year 2 to a new track, it grabbed New Track 1 and combined it with New Track 2; then I deleted the old tracks.

Once I render to a new track, not only can I delete the former tracks that it was derived from, but I can also delete the new track itself and start Year 2 with a clean slate, because the track has already been rendered and recorded in my project folder on my HD.

The mistake I made was to bring all my assets, for the whole 7-year period, into the project. It's OK, it works, but it slows things down quite a bit, especially when I open the project. I would have been much better off to do just one year at a time, 7 individual projects, one for each year; and bring them all together in the final production.

When you render the various sections and then compile the final movie, is there any degradation in quality, on account of each individual section now being compiled twice?

Again, thank you both for your help.

P.S. Now that I have rendered two years, the related assets are sitting in their respective media bins. I can go ahead and delete those two bins, right?
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Re: Rendering to new track questions

Postby Paul LS » Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:41 am

One word of caution... each time you render a clip you slightly degrade the quality, especially compressed clips (MPEG, AVCHD, H.264 etc). If you are re-rendering tracks multiple times this will definately impact the quality. That is one reason create sub-projects and I export/render out the section and then just bring them together only in the final project for a final render. Infact I generally render out each section as an AVI (little compression) or high bitrate MPEG (40 or 50Mb/s) so that quality is less degarded in the final render.
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Re: Rendering to new track questions

Postby Uncle Ben » Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:00 am

Thank you Paul and yes, I was afraid of the degradation from one rendering iteration to the next. At the rate I was going, the earlier years in my project would indeed have been rendered up to six times, hence no doubt that the quality of my project would have suffered. I think I can carry on with what I have, even though, by the time I'm done, the first two years will have endured three and two iterations. These first two segments might suffer some degradation I suppose ... but it's a compromise I can live with for now. I'm still learning, so I consider this project as part of my learning curve.

So if I continue on with the same project and want to lighten the load a bit and delete the media files that belong to the first two years of my project (which are already rendered), is there a quick way of doing this?
If I just delete a bin, the files remain in the All Files, nothing is deleted except the bin per se. If I open the bin and delete the files within each bin, I then have three options to choose from: removing from the project only, or from the bin only; or removing the file from both the bin and the project as well as deleting it from my HD. So this does the job, but it's tedious if you have a lot of bins and sub-bins. It means opening each bin, selecting the files to be removed, and then removing them ... One bin at a time.

Is there a way around this.
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Re: Rendering to new track questions

Postby Paul LS » Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:37 am

It can be tedious deleting all the media files and really there is no need to delete them from the project apart from reducing "clutter" and if you have your media organized in Bins then probably you are not "cluttered up". The media files in the Bins do not impact the performance of Vegas... only files on the timeline will impact the performance. Really all the Bins contain are "links" to where the media is located on your hard drive.
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Re: Rendering to new track questions

Postby Uncle Ben » Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:26 pm

Paul LS wrote:It can be tedious deleting all the media files and really there is no need to delete them from the project apart from reducing "clutter" and if you have your media organized in Bins then probably you are not "cluttered up". The media files in the Bins do not impact the performance of Vegas... only files on the timeline will impact the performance. Really all the Bins contain are "links" to where the media is located on your hard drive.


Are you sure about that Paul? It seems to me that the more assets I bring in, the longer it takes for the project to load, even if I have nothing on the timeline just yet. After removing the media files for the two years already rendered, I've noticed an improvement, nothing huge, but still... ::C
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Re: Rendering to new track questions

Postby Paul LS » Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:38 pm

The project may take longer to load as it has to "associate" all the links and media but once you have the timeline up it will have no impact on the responsiveness, speed or performance.
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Re: Rendering to new track questions

Postby Steve Grisetti » Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:49 pm

And if you want to clear your Project Media panel of all clips except what you have on your timeline, you can click on the lightning bolt in the upper left of the Project Media panel.
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Re: Rendering to new track questions

Postby Uncle Ben » Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:19 pm

Steve/Paul -- Danke to both of you. The more I work with those media bins, the more annoyed I get with their very limited usefulness.

You can categorize your assets into bins, and sub-bins; but you can't delete assets in a bin just be deleting a bin, as all the media files remain part of the project.

What good is it to have all your media files properly pigeonholed if the bins are redundant for adding files to a Slideshow via the slideshow wizard?

It's really strange the way Sony tackled this functionality. The program provides all the appropriate options for removing media files individually or in group from the "All Media" screen; but when looking at your assets in the bins, deleting a bin does just that and only that, leaving all the assets intact in "All Media." :roll:

Do the bins work the same way in the Pro version? :tg3:
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Re: Rendering to new track questions

Postby Paul LS » Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:33 am

It works basically the same in Vegas Pro 12 although they have introduced tagging in the this version which helps organising the bins. As you say, deleting the bin does does get rid of the files from the project. You need to go to "All Media" and "ctrl+left click" to select all the media you want to delete from the project.
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Re: Rendering to new track questions

Postby Uncle Ben » Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:29 am

Paul LS wrote:As you say, deleting the bin does does get rid of the files from the project. You need to go to "All Media" and "ctrl+left click" to select all the media you want to delete from the project.


Did you mean "does does" as in "does NOT" get rid of the files from the project? For me, deleting the bins does absolutely nothing except just deleting the bins - all the files remain in [All Media.] :conf:

When working on a relatively large project, attempting to "select all the media..to delete from the project" is iffy at best, as you have to pretty much hope to nail them all. If Year 1 and Year 2 of my project are in their respective bins, and both years have been rendered, would it not be nice to be able to delete all the now redundant assets with two clicks of the mouse? If there's anyone from Sony listening, perhaps this would be a nice enhancement to bring into the next revision.

I don't know about other folks here, but over time, the date stamp on my media files often gets altered, such that sorting all the media files on the date field provides no assurance that all the files for a given year are the right ones. So really, all the laborious classification of various media files to bins serves absolutely no purpose whatsoever when using the slideshow wizard. By the way, the only reason I use the wizard is for the random transitions; if there was a way to add the random transitions after to photos already on the timeline, perhaps I could do away with the slideshow wizard; and this I'd be able to bring in photos directly from the bins. So, is there a way to change the transitions to random on a selection of photos already on the timeline?

Thank you for your help Paul and all the best to you and your dear ones for the New Year. :drm2:
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Re: Rendering to new track questions

Postby Steve Grisetti » Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:42 am

Which files are you trying to remove, Ben? Are you just trying to clear from your Project Media panel all of the media files you didn't use? As I said above, the program does have a tool for doing that automatically for you.
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