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Patriot Box Purchase

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Re: Patriot Box Purchase

Postby Bob » Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:34 pm

I think I'm going to have to get one of those boxes. :-D

Regarding upscaling, there's a whole spectum of capabilty out there. Not all upscalers are equal. Some do use more advanced algorithms. Now, generic upscaling chipsets are available and I would expect that a lot of equipment will be using one of those. Most (all?) HD TVs have some sort of scaling built-in. When I first got a HD TV, I was using my old DVD player which did not upscale, it passed the standard signal to the TV and the TV gave me the option of displaying a scaled image or the actual image with black borders. The scaled image was awful. I replaced the old DVD player with an upscaling player and the quality was considerably better. I'm very pleased with it. Both the DVD player and my digital cable converter work the same way in offering to upscale the image to one of the values my hdtv will accept or pass through the original size and let the TV handle it. I've got both set to upscale to 1080p to match my HDTV's native resolution.

I've used both Nero and Roxio to create ISO images, but currently my favored package is ImgBurn.
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Re: Patriot Box Purchase

Postby Bobby » Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:41 pm

Bob, I am having a lot of fun with the box, but I need to get down to work one of these days. I need to put all my DVD images in ISO format - need to think about a batch capability to do that.

I agree on the upscaling - a black art. And that is what separates the men from the boys, image-wise. Most upscaling and mapping algorithms are proprietary and jealously guarded I have heard.

But, the question is, how can I answer your question? I have heard nothing on the Patriot forum.
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Re: Patriot Box Purchase

Postby Ron » Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:54 pm

Bob wrote:I've used both Nero and Roxio to create ISO images, but currently my favored package is ImgBurn.

I was disappointed when ImgBurn halted on a (so-called) copy protected DVD - wouldn't do it. I guess the new ones coming out now have this protection. I haven't tried Nero, but some software called AnyDVD worked.

And I'm still sticking to my story that this box plays the native video - doesn't re-encode at all. I say this because my SD videos don't look any better than playing them from a standard DVD player. If my opinion is subjective, then I'm simply not impressed 8-[ but the HD content and performance is awesome! Not to mention that it (PBO) has enormous potential!

Bobby, did you check out PlayOn or TVersity? PlayOn does cost, but TVersity is free (kind of donationware).
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Re: Patriot Box Purchase

Postby Bobby » Thu Feb 11, 2010 6:06 pm

Ron wrote:...Bobby, did you check out PlayOn or TVersity? PlayOn does cost, but TVersity is free (kind of donationware)...



No - haven't run the enet cable yet - have Roku box for Netflix anyhow (wireless).
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Re: Patriot Box Purchase

Postby Bob » Thu Feb 11, 2010 8:22 pm

It will be interesting to see whether it provides an image from my SD discs as good as my upsampling DVD player.

I haven't been burning ISOs from commercial DVDs, only my own. I haven't had a reason up to now. But, the convenience of having my collection on a disk drive(s) and being able to play them on demand from an ISO is definitely appealing. All my commercial DVDs are legit, I don't share, I've purchased every one, and have no bootlegs. I would hope that would be a fair use. I'm sure the studios wouldn't agree, they would much rather you buy a separate DVD for each player you want to play it on. It's no wonder DVD sales are down given the emerging alternatives.

I can't blame ImgBurn for having problems with copy protected discs. It's not a ripper, it's not designed to defeat copy protection or crack encryption. I don't know how much of a problem that will be. AnyDVD should have removed the copy protection and allowed ImgBurn to write the ISO. Did you try that?

Anyway, the box has great potential and the price is low enough that it's worth giving a try even without that.
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Re: Patriot Box Purchase

Postby John 'twosheds' McDonald » Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:38 am

Bob wrote: AnyDVD should have removed the copy protection......ImgBurn to write the ISO.

DVD43 will do this. As it is free it may be worth a try. I have only ever used it with 1ClickDVDCopy so cannot comment on how well it might work with ImgBurn.
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Re: Patriot Box Purchase

Postby Bob » Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:19 am

While it would be nice to have my DVD collection in ISO form to play through this box, I've decided that, given the number of DVDs I have, it would take too much time (that I don't really have available) to do it. Not to mention the amount of storage I would need or other technical issues. It was a fun thought, but in the end, probably not very time or cost effective. Besides, the way things are going, in a few years it may not make much sense to maintain a personal collection if the online services can provide the same content at a reasonable cost.

But, the box still looks like a worthwhile accessory.
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Re: Patriot Box Purchase

Postby Ron » Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:55 am

Bob wrote:AnyDVD should have removed the copy protection and allowed ImgBurn to write the ISO. Did you try that?
FWIW, AnyDVD does write the image as well. But, as John points out, DVD43 does the same thing for free. As usual, many options out there to get the job done.


Bobby wrote:
Ron wrote:...Bobby, did you check out PlayOn or TVersity? PlayOn does cost, but TVersity is free (kind of donationware)...
No - haven't run the enet cable yet - have Roku box for Netflix anyhow (wireless).
Well, the software is not just for Netflix, they can play just about any internet content as well, along with your local media. Just extends your viewing/entertainment pleasure. For instance, if you have a YouTube account, it will log in automatically and play all of your favorite videos in your profile, along with a plethora of other bulletized options.


Bob wrote:in a few years it may not make much sense to maintain a personal collection if the online services can provide the same content at a reasonable cost.
I agree, among other things, that's definitely where the industry is going, hence these media players cashing in now for all it's worth. I really though that DVDs would be avaialable on thumb drives by now :-k

I remember, vividly, transferring my CD collection to the hard drive. Storage was a big issue at the time - now, I can put my entire (60GB and counting) on a flash thumb drive and have plenty of room left over for several DVD ISOs ::wav::
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Re: Patriot Box Purchase

Postby Bobby » Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:35 am

I had two reasons for buying the Box.

1) So I can play HiDef content that I originate on my TV without the ramp up to BluRay - and this seems to work great, except that I have to work out a folder naming system that will make sense to my wife when she plays them.

2) Play DVD images of my own DVDs, not commercial. This is primarily for convenience but also because the shelf life of DVD +/- Rs is not great, and by putting it all on a hard drive I don't have to worry about physical handling / scratching.

I do understand about the 'net usage, and I will get that enet cable strung in a couple of weeks - after taxes and some other local issues.

But I don't think we will have answered Bob's original question about upconverting. Does anyone have a test pattern image that I could burn to real DVD (and play in my upconvert DVD player) and ISO image, and evaluate the difference? I will do that and report back.
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Re: Patriot Box Purchase

Postby Bobby » Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:48 am

I found a pattern, but can't get to work on it until late today or tomorrow.

I plan to go into PRE, create a standard def. fullscreen DVD project and include the test pattern jpg for a few minutes of timeline. I will then write a standard DVD image and then write both a real DVD-R and an ISO image and play them both and evaluate.

Just for grins, I will then take the same image and create a HiDef MPEG-2 movie and play it on the Box also, just to see how it compares.

Anyone have any other suggestions for the test?
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Upconvert Test

Postby Bobby » Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:58 pm

OK - here it is. I found a test pattern, with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back 'splainin' what each one was - oh, wait - wrong song.

Restart: I found a standard test pattern and created objects as described above. The bottom line is that there was no discernible difference between the real DVD played in my Sony upconvert DVD player and the ISO image played through the Box. So either my DVD player does in fact NOT upconvert, or the Box plays just as good as the Sony.

I did create a Hi-Res MPEG-2 image file to play through the box and that was in fact much better looking than either of the two above - again, this is to be expected.

So there it is - anybody have a comment?
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Re: Patriot Box Purchase

Postby Bob » Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:47 pm

Thank you very much for making the comparison. I appreciate it.

What size is the TV screen you used? I have a 52" 1080p LCD for my main tv with a Sony DVD player and I can easily see the difference between the High Def and the DVD, but from my normal viewing distance the DVD image is quite acceptable. I have an older much smaller tv in the bedroom with a Phillips DVD player and you can't tell the difference at the normal viewing distance.
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Re: Patriot Box Purchase

Postby Bobby » Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:00 pm

My main TV is a Panasonic 42" plasma - but it is a few years old now, and only 768 native vertical. But I am running it at 1080i instead of 720p - at least I get those extra 48 pixels! Perhaps that could have affected the test.

I do have a new 1080p / 1080 vertical pixels Vizio in my office, and I could cable it in sometime to check again but it would be a bit of work.

I agree about the viewing distance. I do a lot of Netflix viewing these days via Roku box and that is only 720p anyhow. It is not as good as the 1080i coming out of the cable box on HiDef broadcasts, but still quite acceptable for casual viewing in the living room - hardly a difference, especially after a bourbon or two :lol:
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Re: Patriot Box Purchase

Postby Bobby » Sat Feb 13, 2010 3:17 pm

I haven't received any significant answers from my posts at the Patriot forums. BTW, they tend to call it the PBO (Patriot Box Office) and so I will stick with the same abbreviation from now on.

But one post did indicated that they thought that Patriot had indicated it had "upscaling" vs. "upconverting". The implication being that upscaling is a simple pixel doubling type of algorithm, not anything more complicated.
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Re: Patriot Box Purchase

Postby Ken Jarstad » Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:13 am

Time to resurrect another old topic!

Bobby, how do you like your PBO media player after all these months?

I had forgotten about this gadget and just before Christmas I bought a Sony SMP-N100 media player for just under 100 USD at Costco. Yesterday I took it back and got my money back. Not recommended.

The Sony media player has built-in wireless networking and I was able to get it talking to the WRT-54G router and connected to my Windows 7 box via UPnP. I was able to connect via the Internet to YouTube and several other services. If that is what you want, this box may be for you. But, as a source for my personal media it stinks!

I looked at the Western Digital box but the reviews were not much better. Then I checked here in muvipix and found again this topic. It sounds like the PBO is what I really want now.

Did anyone here get the optional wireless adapter and how did it work?

Did you know this box is also available for lessor price as the Hornettek Phantom MP-2020? Selling now on Amazon for $61.81 plus $16.99 for the wireless-N adapter.
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