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Video workflow

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Video workflow

Postby _Paz_ » Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:50 am

I've found Photoshop to be slow on viewing video straight from the original file. I've begun to view video in Pre El 11, trim the beginning and end, select portions that need work...

Render-save as a high quality Quick Time file,

which becomes my base for working, then opening in Photoshop where I can edit via adjustment layers and/or smart objects

then Render-save as high Q Quick Time file again

open in Pre El 11 and make edits to put the video together, try to sync with audio, transitions, time mapping adjustments, etc., then

Render-save as high Q finished video file that can later be written to DVD, BluRay

close that

then upload to Vimeo - YouTube, if desired.

Lots of Render- to - save time.

I haven't even begun my first AE experiments yet. I'm wondering what workflow I should use.

With all it appears AE can do, I hope I can leave Photoshop out all together. Maybe even do editing in AE from the get-go.

How do you go about it?

thanks,

Paz
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Re: Video workflow

Postby Bob » Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:22 pm

I have the Production Premium CS6 suite which includes Photoshop CS6, Premiere Pro CS6, and After Effects CS6. I use Premiere Pro to edit the movie together and produce the final product and After Effects to do the motion graphics, special effects, green screen, or other corrections that After Effects does better than Premiere Pro. I use Photoshop primarily for static images (for example: backgrounds/mattes, slides, cutting out and preparing images for a 3D Ken Burns Effect, etc.).

Premiere Pro and After Effects can be dynamically linked so that you can hand off portions from one to the other without requiring rendering out first. But, you could certainly render out a segment from After Effects and use it in Premiere Elements. It's not a problem. Once you become familiar and comfortable with After Effects, you'll find little need to use the Photoshop video capabilities for routine tasks. It is possible to do your entire edit in After Effects, but it's not really designed for that.
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Re: Video workflow

Postby _Paz_ » Sat Jul 13, 2013 2:06 pm

Thanks, Bob. I took your advice and now, after playing around with After Effects for a couple of days I can see that AE truly is set up to be for creating special effects only. I'd love to be able to go back and forth easily from AE to PreEl 11, but as you say, rendering to move back and forth between them will work.

I've found Premiere Pro CS 5.5 for sale, a full retail version, that is, not the educational version...but it is an upgrade box with an earlier version included to be the basis for the upgrade.

I spent a couple of hours yesterday in chat and on the phone with Adobe to see if what is being offered would qualify. Apparently no one there knows. So, what do you think? Here's part of the sales poop:

Quote:
For sale in this auction is a brand new sealed retail version of Adobe Premiere Pro CS5.5 for Windows. This is a combination of the retail upgrade of Adobe Premiere Pro CS5.5 and a previous version of Premiere 6.0. The combination unlocks the upgrade and makes this a complete and full retail version.

To install, insert the Premiere Pro CS5.5 installation disc. You will be prompted for the Premiere Pro CS5.5 serial number. You will then see a dropdown menu asking you to select your previous version of Premiere. Select Adobe Premiere 6.0 and enter the 6.0 serial number on the back of the disc case. Installation will proceed.


I also wonder what other major considerations there might be to switch from pre el to Premiere Pro.
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Re: Video workflow

Postby Bob » Sat Jul 13, 2013 5:39 pm

Premiere Pro CS6 and After Effects CS6 are the first versions that allowed dynamic link when bought separately. In CS5.5 and earlier, Premiere Pro and After Effects could only use dynamic link if you bought them as part of the Production Premium suite. You won't be able to use dynamic link.

The Premiere Pro CS5.5 package you are looking at is an upgrade version which requires a previous full version to upgrade from. The Premiere Pro 6 version included is what's providing the basis for the upgrade. You don't need to install the old version, but you will be required to enter the serial number when installing the CS5.5 upgrade. As long as all the serial numbers are valid, haven't been used before, and not on the pirated list, everything should install and run OK. FYI, Premiere Pro 6 is a very old version (2001) which predates all CS versions. Don't confuse it with CS6.

Is this want you wanted to know?

As far as considerations switching from Premiere Elements to Premiere Pro, there are some. First, be aware that you can easily have both installed at the same time without problems. They each have their own project files which can't be shared -- Premiere Pro can convert some Premiere Elements project files to Premiere Pro project files, but definitely not all and you can't open Premiere Pro projects in Premiere Elements at all. Premiere Elements is a consumer level product and includes some 3rd party plugins. Premiere Pro doesn't include the same plugins. The biggest change is in the interface and integration aspects. Premiere Pro does not use the Organizer and includes a separate program, Encore, for DVD and Blu-ray production. Premiere Pro also allows multiple timelines (called sequences) in the same project. Each sequence can have its own separate video properties. On the plus side, a lot of the things you normally do are the same in both. Once you get used to the changes, you'll find Premiere Pro gives you a lot more control and capability. I still have Premiere Elements 7 installed, but I haven't used it in years.

There are some excellent free training tutorials available. Creative cow has some very good ones.
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Re: Video workflow

Postby _Paz_ » Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:20 am

Is this want you wanted to know?


Yes. Long ago Adobe had a pretty open upgrade policy. One could upgrade to the latest version as long as they could show they'd owned an earlier version. After they took over Macromedia, Adobe adopted Macromedia's policy of only allowing quite recent versions to update. My concern with this offer is/was that version 6, not a CS anything, might be too far back to qualify.

But if CS 5.5 won't flow seamlessly with AE in the individual programs, I'll pass. This combo is listed at $350. An upgrade to CS6 would put the total cost close to buying CS 6 outright at Amazon. I'd rather try to sock some $$ away, wait and hope Adobe keeps their promise to continue to offer CS 6 indefinitely. I've already gone overboard and bought AE. I believe the capabilities of AE will justify the expense, however, and I don't believe there is a consumer version of AE.

I like PreEl 11. The upgrade from 10 simplified the working area dramatically. I can't see that it lost any functionality.

What I wish it would do more easily is work seamlessly with Photoshop - and now with AE. And I also wish it was easy to sync video and music. I've been trying to work out a hodge podge way to do this, but it would be grand if it was easy. I don't know if PremierePro would make it easy or not. As a pro program, I feel it ought to.

And that thought leads me to wonder if Adobe will continue to develop Premiere and Photoshop Elements. Back when I first bought Photoshop, the Elements version did not have color management or the ability to skew an image, both critical to being able to make professional quality prints of paintings, which was my original goal.

Once again, thanks Bob.
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Re: Video workflow

Postby Bob » Sun Jul 14, 2013 5:14 am

You are very welcome, Paz. And, congratulations on getting After Effects! Which version did you get?
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Re: Video workflow

Postby _Paz_ » Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:00 pm

AE CS6.

I watched it on Ebay for about a week. $500 buy it now, opening bid of $300. The seller has a 100% rating and said he had the original box. He did not have a huge number of sales though. The end of the listing was shortly before dawn, my time. I went to sleep thinking that if I woke up in time, I'd place the minimum bid. I did. No one else placed a bid. Adobe verifies it is legal. I'm happy. Still shouldn't have, but glad I did.

It now occurs to me that for single products Adobe may, in future, become the only supplier. That is, the copies out there now may be it. When they are gone it may become buy from Adobe only. Which means no price break.

I downloaded Premiere Pro CS6 and have been playing around with it this morning. I've learned that it is possible to export as either NTSC OR PAL. With Pre El I've had to choose between the two formats when beginning a project. That is a significant feature, so I may go for PrePro after all.

I'm not finding lots of glitzy effects. Guess I'll have to keep digging.

Is it easy to sync video and audio in PrePro?
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Re: Video workflow

Postby Peru » Sun Jul 14, 2013 5:33 pm

_Paz_ wrote:AE CS6.

I may go for PrePro after all.

Is it easy to sync video and audio in PrePro?


As far as syncing goes, I don't think that there is much difference.

Other features such as multiple sequences, nesting, copy and paste from one project to another (or import from one project to another), encoding options, and many others make Pro the hands down choice for me. I moved from Pre El 3.02 to PPro CS4 and then PPro CS5.5 and currently don't even have Pre El installed an any of my machines.

By the way, I almost bid on that After Effects on eBay. :fg:
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Re: Video workflow

Postby Bob » Sun Jul 14, 2013 6:22 pm

Most editors will let you slip the audio left or right by whole frames to align the audio with the video. Premiere Pro lets you select an option to use the audio units (samples) and slip the audio by down to individual samples if necessary. You can't get closer than that. This sub-frame sampling is especially important for syncing voice to lip movements where a full frame may not be a fine enough adjustment.
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Re: Video workflow

Postby _Paz_ » Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:44 am

Well, <cough, cough> I submitted an offer on Ebay for Premiere Pro CS 6 and it was accepted. The 2nd offer, anyway. Should be here Wednesday or Thursday. In the meantime I'll be playing around with the download from Adobe.

I have one video camera hanging upside down from a sliding drawer track Mr. B installed on the ceiling for me. When it is zoomed in on my work area you can't see my palette. I have a 2nd video camera I want to use for the palette but it won't film in 1020P. The ads for it said it would, and it will for playback via HDMI cable to your TV, but it won't output files at that setting. The ability to combine these is a biggie.

Ability to produce both NTSC and PAL is another biggie.

Easier workflow is good too.

I never used Elements' Organizer anyway. Easier to use Bridge. So, done.

What books do y'all recommend? I've found Classroom in a Book and An Editor's Guide to Adobe Premiere Pro. Hard to tell if one is better than the other and there may be others better than either of these. Any recommendations for books re: AE?

Oh, I also found a Peachpit TV video on squeezing sound to fit video length here, it only requires yet another Adobe program! augh!

http://tv.adobe.com/watch/peachpit-tv-f ... -audition/

>> almost bid

I was surprised no one went for the buy it now price. Lower than I had found anywhere else. Still, I was nervous about it. The guy didn't have many sales.











http://tv.adobe.com/watch/peachpit-tv-f ... -audition/
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Re: Video workflow

Postby Bob » Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:20 pm

You can do a similar speedup in the free Audacity program using the tempo effect. I think at this point, Audacity will probably do much of what you want.

Audition is a great program with many more features, but it is pricey. I have it as part of the Production Premium CS6 suite.

For After Effects books, a great start is After Effects Apprentice. The authors also have a video version on Lynda.com.

There are also some excellent free training videos for Premiere Pro CS6 and After Effects at Creative Cow.
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Re: Video workflow

Postby _Paz_ » Tue Jul 16, 2013 6:47 am

Thanks, Bob.

After Effects Apprentice - OK. Sounds good. Coming soon to a theater near me. Wonder if it will include popcorn? :D

I have free Audacity. Looks like I need to pay more attention to it.

>> Creative Cow

Moooooo, um I mean, yes. Lots of recent hours sitting on the fence, chewing hay. Good information there. Speaking of videos, I came across a double feature related to synching sound and video that shows me that my hodge podge editing efforts in PreEl 11 are on the right track. The presenter creates markers on an audio timeline, then makes video fit.

The second part of this tutorial explains how they use speech recognition to turn a video's speech into text. Wow! It is probably possible to use PPro to make videos that have subtitles!!!! I've wanted to be able to do that from the very beginning!

So, I've continued to moooooo on over to closed caption and speech to text and subtitle tutorials. I've watched until I thought I might fall off the fence... but I can't get it to work. And those discussions really belong in the PPro subforum, not this one, so I'll be taking that there.
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Re: Video workflow

Postby momoffduty » Tue Jul 16, 2013 9:35 am

Paz, congrats on your purchase! I agree with Bob that After Effects Apprentice is a must read. Be sure to do all of the exercises and use the keyboard shortcuts like they instruct. By the time you are finished working through the book you will know these shortcuts and they are a real time saver. It is worth going through all of the chapters even if you don't think you will use that effect because you may pick up a little skill from that exercise that you will eventually use.
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Re: Video workflow

Postby _Paz_ » Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:55 pm

Thanks, Mom!

I've been viewing tutorials scattershot. It will be nice to begin learning in a logical sequence.

:)
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