Correct Export Setting?

[Simon Silverstein]

My final video project will consist of about a dozen segments joined together. Some of the segments started off as AVCHD clips and others as DV clips. I understand that the method of doing this joining is to export each segment as a Movie and then extract these from the Organizer into one large file. All will have been rendered prior to export. The final project will be burnt onto a DVD. I and some recipients currently own only a standard DVD player. Other people who will be getting the video own Blu-Ray players.
My question is: in order to get maximum quality on both types of players, what format do I use for exporting each clip, and then eventually what format do I choose for burning the whole thing onto a DVD so it will play on both types of players?

[Steve Grisetti]

There is no magic way to output a file that will look great on both a BluRay and a DVD, Simon. And, since you're mixing DV and AVCHD anyway, your best bet may just be to output a standard DVD. Most BluRay players have an up-converter in them that makes standard DVDs look almost as good as BluRays anyway.

So I'd recommend outputting all of your parts as DV-AVIs and then assembling them all in one final project, which you output as a DVD.

Your other alternative is to create two different versions -- one a standard DVD and one your mix of hi-def and regular DV files, but saved as a pseudo hi-def video.

Then you'll create two separate projects -- one of which will be made up of standard video for your DVD and one of which is made up of hi-def and pseudo hi-def for your BluRay.

Personally, I think the latter is the smarter workflow, even if it means you're only outputting a standard def DVD.

[Simon Silverstein]

Steve, thanks for your quick response. A few issues remain.
I am a bit confused as to the route you suggested, which was that I follow the "latter" procedure--which was creating two separate projects(??)--one project in HD and the other in standard DV--but then you go on to say this would be in dv, which is why I am somewhat confused.

After your advice, I did experiment with exporting short projects as DV. There seem to be two pertinent settings: Microsoft DV AVI, and UNCOMPRESSED MICROSOFT. Is one of these better than another?
I tried using both of these settings. In each case the pc replay result was fuzzier and less defined, even for the original DV clips I had. I can understand that my AVCHD clips would look fuzzier, but not that the DV ones do. Does this have anything to do with compression, and if so, how can I improve the final image? Or is it something else?

Finally, there was another issue, that being the screen shape. The AVCHD needs 16:9 or it looks squeezed laterally. Once I got the correct screen ratio, the picture looked normal. My DV was shot on tape at 4:3. My AVCHD was shot at 16:9

This is about an hour and a half video I am creating, composed of twenty or so segments (it keeps growing) , so before I start all the exporting,I'd like to be sure all the settings are correct so that the final work is as high in quality as possible given the conditions I outlined.

Thanks again for your help. It has been invaluable!

[Steve Grisetti]

I'm not sure if I can do a good job of explaining this, Simon. But I'll try.

You say one of your source files is standard DV. If so, even if you use it to create a hi-def project and export it as a BluRay disc, it will still only be standard resolution -- just standard resolution "blown out."

With your AVCHD video, you can create either a project that is hi-def (BluRay) or standard definition (DVD).

You want to create one of each -- a DVD for your DVD player friends and a hi-def version for your BluRay player friends. Your DVD is going to be reduced to standard resolution -- so it's never going to look as good as your original AVCHD. However, many BluRay players will take a standard DVD and make it look almost as good as BluRay by pixel-doubling and sharpening.

That's why I said the simplest solution is just to send everyone DVDs.

But, if you want to create one of each, it's probably best to create a master project in hi-def and output that as a BluRay disc. Then save it as a DV-AVI (not uncompressed), import it into a standard DV project and output that as a DVD. That should give you pretty good results in either format.

The challenge is going to be figuring out how to mix that standard DV footage into the same project as your AVCHD. I'm not sure if it's as simple as just dropping the footage into an AVCHD project and then blowing it out to hi-def (Scaling it to 200% or so) so that it fits the frame. There may be interlacing issues, etc. It may take some experimenting to see if it will work.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents. Let's see if anyone who's had experience mixing formats and outputting both BluRays and DVDs from the same project has any further thoughts or suggestions.

[Simon Silverstein]

I have tried some export setting experiments, both with the originally AVCHD files and the originally DV files. The AVCHD files are in Projects with 108i 30 settings and the dv projects are in DV setting projects. I then created a project that was set at DV-AVI and dragged three clips into it from the Organizer one 1600x1200 still, one (rendered) AVCHD video file and one video DV file. I exported this combined project into a Target DV-AVI project. In its original AVCHD form, the AVCHD file looks fine. But when Exported into the Target file which has the DV-AVI setting, it looks quite blurry, much worse than the DV file--which seems clearer! Am I doing something wrong here? Is there any way to get the original AVCHD files clearer when exported into a DV-AVI project?

Another note regarding the export: Although I can see the whole AVCHD 16:9 picture in the preview, the white guidelines show the sides clipped off. I'm wondering if the whole image will show if played on a 16:9 TV.

I'm about 3/4 the way through your Premiere 7 book: it has many wonderful methods and tips and I wish it was more detailed, and there could be more in it about these and similar settings problems, especially in this transitional period where DV, HD, AVCH formats are used--and, from my experience, both the hardware and video editing software have not caught up yet.

Thanks again. You've been extremely helpful in setting me on the right path(s).

[Steve Grisetti]

Well, the DV-AVI output you make from your original mix will only have 1/4 the resolution of the original hi-def video -- so it may look "blurry". (Though "less detailed" would be a more accurate description.) But, if you look at it at its full frame size, it should look fine. (Full frame size is NOT the same as full-screen on your computer. Your computer monitor has several times the resolution of a 720x480 video frame.)

In short, don't trust what you're seeing on your computer. Your computer screen is very highly detailed. Your DV-AVI is made to be shown on a TV.

Output a test DVD and play it on your TV and you'll see what I mean. It should look almost as good ON YOUR TV as the video directly from your camcorder. Make sense?

[Simon Silverstein]

Partially satisfying tested methods and results:

The original 4:3 DV files were exported as a Movie using Microsoft Dv AVI 4:3 settings.
The original AVCHD (rendered) files were exported as a Movie using Microsoft DV AVI 16:9 settings.
Both of these appeared in the Organizer. I then created a New Project using the MS DV AVI 16:9 settings and dragged these two items into it from the Organizer. There was no distortion in the images. I then burned to a 4.7 size blank DVD. All went well (the test combined clips ran under 5 minutes in length). It played on a DVD player to a 40" Samsung 16:9 HD TV monitor. There was no distortion, but the image quality could have been better (somewhat fuzzy).

I still have not completed nor have I totally assembled the final production, which will be about 1 1/2 hours long. Looking at the above steps I followed, can anyone see a way to improve the visual quality on the final DVD?

PS: There were some weird squeezing distortions that occurred when I tied capturing a frame to "work on in Photoshop" , so I abandoned that effort.
I'm more concerned with the poor video quality mentioned above. I realize DV is not HD but hoped it could be a bit better than what I got.

[Steve Grisetti]

It depends on what you mean by "quality", Simon. If you're talking about resolution, you can't do much about that. DVDs are 720x480 pixels -- roughly 1/4 the resolution of hi-def. Many newer DVD players have an HDMI upscaler that will make that resolution look better on a big-screen TV. But, if you're using a standard DVD player, it's just a small picture on a big TV. Nothing you can do to change that.

If you're talking about more than resolution, I'm not sure what's up. You shouldn't see a loss in color quality or contrast.

I can also explain the distortion you're seeing when you capture a frame from your video -- but it depends on which method you used to capture that frame. In my books I explain how to use the Free Frame tool's settings to save your frame as square pixels rather than anamorphic so that you don't see this distortion.

[Simon Silverstein]

Hooray!! I just finished my one and a half hour video extravaganza that originally contained both SD tape material and AVCHD HD material--all transposed to SD in PE7 and successfully burned to a 4.7 DVD. The video quality is decent, but not as sharp as I would have liked--I understand, as result of using SD not HD.
I can unequivocally say that I would not have been able to finish this project without being shunted to a videographers' mental hospital without Steve's patient and informative help--both via this forum and through my use of his book on PE 7. THANKS, STEVE. I APPRECIATE YOUR HELP TREMENDOUSLY. Keep up the great work!.

[Steve Grisetti]

These are the kinds of success stories we love to hear at Muvipix! Happy moviemaking, Simon!