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Seeing red?

Specific to Premiere Elements Version 7.

Seeing red?

Postby peggig » Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:40 pm

I'm producing a rather complex video, where I have to create a number of subprojects, save out each subproject as an MPEG, and then import the MPEGs into a master project for the final video.

I've encountered a very peculiar phenomenon. In the subproject, everything looks fine. When I save it to an MPEG, and watch the MPEG on my computer, it plays fine. When I import the MPEG into the master project, there are two places in it where the video is just red. Each one lasts about 12 frames. I've tried re-exporting the project to an MPEG and importing the new MPEG into the master project, but the same thing happens in the same places. I even tried creating a new master project and importing a new MPEG from the subproject, but the same thing happens.

I've encountered this phenomenon once before but, in that case, the red frames were at the very beginning of the subproject, and the image where they appeared happened to be a JPEG of a map. I fixed it that time by simply stretching out the JPEG for an extra 10 seconds before I started animating it, and then I just I edited out the first ten seconds of it in the master project. In the current case, the red frames appear in two places in the middle of the MPEG, and it's while someone is talking, so I can't just edit them out.

Again, the peculiar thing is that it plays fine both in the subproject and the MPEG itself, when played in Windows Media Player. It's only when I import the MPEG into the master project that these red frames appear. Has anybody else ever encountered anything like this? What can I do?

Thanks in advance for any help you can give me.
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Re: Seeing red?

Postby Dave McElderry » Tue Oct 04, 2011 3:54 am

peggig, you don't say what source files you're using, but I'd export as DV AVI instead of MPEG. The files will be bigger, but should be less problematic. In PrEl 7 this is done by first clicking anywhere in the timeline panel to select it and then going to File > Export > Movie. In Settings > General > File Type choose Microsoft DV AVI. Make the appropriate choice under "Range" (probably Entire Timeline in this case), and deselect "Add to Project When Finished." Under "Video" deselect "Recompress." The other video settings will depend on your project type (NTSC? standard or widescreen?). Click on OK, choose your file name and save location and click Save. Let us know if this helped.

EDIT: You might also want to check out the red frames discussion in this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10039&p=87731&hilit=red+frames#p87731
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Re: Seeing red?

Postby peggig » Tue Oct 04, 2011 3:49 pm

My source is HDV, 1440x1080i. My understanding is that AVI only supports standard definition. For a long time, I had given up on editing in high definition because I ran into so many problems. Then I upgraded to Win7-64 and added extra memory, and that seemed to solve most of the problems. This is new, though. Until this project, I've never encountered this issue before.

There are 32 subprojects that I export to MPEGs to import into the master project, and I've only had this problem with two of them. The first one didn't really matter because I was able to work around it. For this one, though, there doesn't seem to be any workaround. It's very frustrating.

I've always gotten great advice on this forum, so I'm hoping somebody can help me now. Has anybody else ever encountered anything like this?
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Re: Seeing red?

Postby Dave McElderry » Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:02 pm

I don't work in HDV, so I'm not going to be able to help you beyond what I've already suggested. Hopefully someone else will. Sorry.
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Re: Seeing red?

Postby Steve Grisetti » Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:40 pm

Have you ensured that you have the latest version of Quicktime from Apple.com?
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Re: Seeing red?

Postby Chuck Engels » Wed Oct 05, 2011 8:43 am

This happens to me sometimes when capturing a tape and either the timecode or the tape has flaws.
Then Premiere will have red frames where the problems were. The last time this happened was very recently on a promotional video where they used 2 cameras for interviews. Unfortunately the camera guy was shooting with used tape, that really screwed up some of it. One reason why I never reuse tape, just because of the potential for problems like this one. Don't know how many times the tape was reused, my guess is many times. Anyway, one of the tapes was completely useless.

In your original project what is at the point of the red frames, transitions, any effects?
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Re: Seeing red?

Postby peggig » Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:11 pm

Steve Grisetti wrote:Have you ensured that you have the latest version of Quicktime from Apple.com?

I couldn't find QuickTime on my system, though I'm sure I recall Premiere Elements installing it (or asking me to). Anyway, I just downloaded and installed the latest version, and I don't see the red frames any more in the timeline!

But the weird thing is, before I downloaded the latest version of QuickTime, I burned a DVD of the master project, and it showed the red frames. So, now that I have the latest version of QuickTime, and I don't see the red frames in the editor, when I burn a DVD again, I assume the red frames won't show up in the DVD, either. I'm shooting some more footage on Friday, so I'll wait until I edit that in before I burn it to a DVD again, but I'll let you know if the red frames still show up on the DVD.

Do you know what causes this? I could understand if the red frames only showed up in the editor, because the editor uses QuickTime for playback, but why would that affect the way it burns to a DVD? Does PRE7 use QuickTime for rendering when it burns a DVD?

Anyway, thank you, thank you, thank you! I love this forum!
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Re: Seeing red?

Postby peggig » Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:30 pm

Chuck Engels wrote:This happens to me sometimes when capturing a tape and either the timecode or the tape has flaws.
Then Premiere will have red frames where the problems were. The last time this happened was very recently on a promotional video where they used 2 cameras for interviews. Unfortunately the camera guy was shooting with used tape, that really screwed up some of it. One reason why I never reuse tape, just because of the potential for problems like this one. Don't know how many times the tape was reused, my guess is many times. Anyway, one of the tapes was completely useless.

In your original project what is at the point of the red frames, transitions, any effects?


Hey Chuck, it seems that Steve's solution solved the problem, but just for completeness, I never reuse tapes. I've heard that can cause problems, so I always use brand new tapes. Also, that way I have an archive of all the footage I shoot.

The red frames weren't at any transition points in the original project, or at the introduction of any effects. That was the first thing I looked for, but they were right in the middle of a clip, with no key frames except for volume adjustments. The only effects were brightness, contrast, and saturation adjustments (because it was a really bright day), but the effects were applied to the entire clip.

What was most puzzling is that the clip played fine in the subproject, and the MPEG I saved from the subproject played fine. The red frames only showed up when I imported it into the master project. I'm still puzzled by this, but it seems to have been fixed by installing the latest version of QuickTime, so I'm happy (although that, too, is puzzling to me).
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Re: Seeing red?

Postby Dave McElderry » Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:55 pm

Congrats peggig! Good job Steve! ::CLAP:
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Re: Seeing red?

Postby Chuck Engels » Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:05 pm

Premiere Elements uses Quicktime, or at least codecs related to Quicktime to do some things so it is logical that not having Quicktime installed can cause problems like this. Excellent diagnostic and troubleshooting work Steve, you should write a book :)

Oh, that's right, you have dozens of them already :TU:
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Re: Seeing red?

Postby peggig » Thu Oct 06, 2011 1:34 pm

I was wrong. The red frames are still there. I must have been looking in the wrong place. So installing QuickTime didn't solve the problem after all.

Does anybody have any other suggestions?
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Re: Seeing red?

Postby Steve Grisetti » Thu Oct 06, 2011 1:37 pm

Peg, you say this is HDV video.

Can you confirm that this is tape-based video and that used Premiere Elements to capture it over a FireWire connection? We need to eliminate some variables.

Which graphics card to you have? Have you gone to the ATI or nVidia site and ensured you have the latest driver for it?

Finally, what operating system are you on? You're not using the 64-bit version of Windows 7, are you?
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Re: Seeing red?

Postby Chuck Engels » Thu Oct 06, 2011 1:42 pm

I have this happen as I've said above and it has to do with bad tape. Sometimes I can capture the tape again and the second time it will be fine. Just because other programs play the files fine doesn't mean that there isn't a problem with them. To edit the files a lot more data is required and could possibly be missing. They would be able to play fine in Windows Media Player for example but Movie Maker or Premiere Elements would have issues like you see. Might want to capture the tape again and replace the original with the new one, just renaming them should do the trick.
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Re: Seeing red?

Postby Chuck Engels » Thu Oct 06, 2011 1:51 pm

Here is a discussion at Creative Cow about red frames in After Effects, same kind of issue here
http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/2/925856

Most of the solutions recommend converting the file to something else and the red frames will go away. You can try converting to H.264 or maybe even just converting back to MPEG will do the trick.
There is some explanation about why/how this happens in the topic at Creative Cow.
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Re: Seeing red?

Postby Dave McElderry » Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:26 pm

That's basically what I was saying originally, except that I didn't know what the appropriate format would be for HD.
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