An Encore Workflow for Bullet-proof DVD's

[Bill Hunt]

Based on several requests on the Adobe Encore forums, I just posted my "personal" workflow for "bullet-proof" DVD authoring in Encore. This is obviously not the only way to do it, but it has worked 100% for me, on hundreds of Projects over many years.

Link to post: http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.59b61015

One may have to tailor their workflow to suit their Assets, and my workflow assumes that I am the creator of these Assets in the appropriate program, so I have complete control. You may have extra steps, regarding ripping and conversion of file formats, but once you get those done, if you use my workflow, your DVD's will Burn perfectly, every time. Remember, this is not the ONLY workflow possible. These are not the ONLY file formats allowed. However, they have ALWAYS worked for me. I believe that they will ALWAYS work for you too.

Hunt

[momoffduty]

Went to the link and looks like the last paragraph was cut off.

[Chuck Engels]

Yup, definitely got cut off Bill.
That's the Adobe forums for you

Wouldn't mind a bit if you would copy that to the Premiere Pro and/or DVD Authoring forums here Bill

[Bill Hunt]

Thank you for your replies. I must have hit a line limit in the Encore forum. I ended up having to do three more pages as replies! I had not checked the post, myself, as I had just done a Ctrl-a/Ctrl-c/Ctrl-v into the Forum, and assumed that it all got posted. You saved me great embarrassment.

The full article should be up now. At least I hope so.

Hunt

[momoffduty]

Thanks Bill! My Encore notebook is starting to fill up.

[momoffduty]

Bill, have read over your Bullet proof article a few times and have a few questions. They are a little 101 Q's, sorry.

Have a project in Pro. When I export the sequence to Pro as a Timeline, is there an option to export the video only or should I just turn the eye off of the audio track?

To export the Audio only, File>Export>Media Encoder....what settings do I need for an AC3?

Thanks.

[Bill Hunt]

Cheryl,

When I Export a Sequence from Pro, I do so in two (2) steps, as I want elemental steams, not a mux'ed single file. First is File>Export Movie, where the settings are DV-AVI and Video (only checked - no Audio). This will be Exported into my "Finished AVI's" folder for that Project. Then, with the same Sequence, I will Export>Adobe Media Exporter. Here I will set my file type to AC3 (as I am doing 5.1 Surround Sound for all of these) and Audio (only checked - no Video). This will be Exported into my "Finished AC3's" folder. With the Audio, one could also Export as PCM/WAV, should they be working in mono, or stereo.

Though PCM/WAV is one of the accepted Audio file formats, a few folk have had problems with the combined bit-rate of mux'ed DV-AVI's with PCM/WAV exceeding the max DVD spec. Note: this has been for mux'ed files - files that contain both the Audio and Video. The slight, additional benefit of the AC3's is that they are a bit smaller in size, than the PCM/WAV files, and are the "approved" format for 5.1 Surround Sound. One can work with mux'ed files, and Encore will not have a problem in all but the rarest of cases, but I always use elemental streams, even though it means two Exports per Sequence. Besides, I need to do this for 5.1 SS.

Note: to Export from Pro with 5.1 Surround Sound, one needs the Minnetonka SurCode DD Surround Sound encoder plug-in. This is a US$249 extra. Pro comes with about 3 trial usages of this plug-in, then you need to buy it, and register it, to use it. If one is considering this purchase (and I love it enough to have bought 2 copies - one for workstation and one for the laptop), they need to buy it from within Pro, as there is a savings of US$50 over the price (US$299) on the Minnetonka Web site. For info on the plug-in: http://www.surcode.com/ (remember, save $50 and buy from within Premiere Pro).

Once you begin working with DD 5.1 Surround Sound, whether it's for background music tracks, or SFX and Foley work, you will never go back again!

Hope this helps,

Hunt

PS Remember that this is not the only way to do a Project in Encore. It is just the workflow that I've developed from a lot of reading and experimenting, and it's been 100% so far. Er-r, where's that wood to knock on?!?!?!

[momoffduty]

Bill, When I asked about the Export to DV-AVI, thought you were somehow transcoding before going to Encore. Sometimes I overthink things (better than assuming ) Have used this export many times for a variety of reasons.

Ran a test:

Video: Export to DV-AVI (video only)
Audio: WAV - made sure it was at 48kHz & 16 bit per Adobe tech. case

WORKS! Burned to a folder then to Nero to disc.


1. On the DV-AVI export, what is your compression set at? Bit depth - project setting or maximum?

2. I did see in the Media Encoder for Audio under MPEG2 the option for Dolby Digital and then a pop up box with the 3 trial times free.

Audio 101 question: if your source file (video clip from camcorder) is not SS, then transcoding to an AC3 will make it SS? Do you have to manually adjust the speakers in the mixer? Lost here.

Excellent article, thanks! I can see by taking your project as a saved DV-AVI file to Encore you don't have to worry about all of the elements that went into the original PRO project changed/deleted/moved.

[Bill Hunt]

Cheryl,

Basically, one has two choices out of Pro to DVD (now, there are three, as CS3 offers a more direct link to Encore):

1.) Establish the Transcode settings and Export to MPEG-2. This needs to be based on a lot of things, and is done with a bit-rate calculator. All aspects of the resultant DVD must be considered, such as extra Audio Tracks, and overhead for Menus, etc. I seldom use this approach, though have, for some tricky Projects. This is a little art, a lot of science and years of experience to get the best possible Asset Transcodes right. Hollywood uses people with this expertise and encoders that cost as much as the gross national product of many small countries. That is how great quality can be obtained on a DVD - they pay for it.

2.) Export to DV-AVI (whether mux'ed or not), for Import into Encore, which will do a great job of fitting the material onto the specified DVD (either DVD-5, or DVD-9). This is how I usually do it. Encore does the math, and is quite adapt at it. It is not always foolproof, and one has to weight the quality vs the size and number of discs, based on the Duration of the Assets. Encore is good, but will not and cannot work Hollywood level magic. Somethimes one has to just compromise on the delivery of the material, i.e. 2 discs, DVD-9, etc..

3.) Now, CS3 will allow one to Export to Encore for a single Sequence (Timeline). This is not quite like Dynamic Link between Pro and AE, but just does the Export, creates a new Project in Encore, and does the Import of the Sequence as a Timeline. As it only works with one Sequence, I see little real use for this feature. I'm sure that it was added to cover the fact that one can no longer Bun a DVD directly from Pro, like you could with PP2. That burning capability was very limited. I'd say less than what PE4 allows. It was only good for a quick-n-dirty test, IMO.

As to your Surround Sound question. If your source is stereo (or even mono), the SurCode plug-in will not automatically make it into SS. Yes, it will encode it as SS, but your Audio sources will just be evenly split around the sound field. However, you can go into the Audio Mixer and move things around, to suit your needs and tastes, and on a dynamic basis. This is really a "faux SS," as you still have only two "sources" (one if original was mono, though that will be reproduced as equal signals in a stereo field when going to DVD). Now, if you add music, you are adding additional sources and can locate these signals around the same SS field, and that location can be dynamic, as well. Same for SFX/Foley files. That knock on the door can now come from far rear left!

Though it is still faux SS, one can also take their audio files into, say Audition and re-mix them to full DD 5.1 SS. There is a lot of work that goes into this, and I can recommend a half-dozen good books on the subject. Note: some of these go into a great deal of detail, and cite lots of technical papers on audio, psycho-acoustics and other related, though not that interesting, subjects. With a bit of judicious re-mixing, filtering, reverb and delay Effects, from one's stereo source file, near 5.1 SS can be achieved. As I am just beginning to explore the "real world" of DD 5.1 SS, I've been doing a lot of reading and experimenting. To date, all of my efforts, with two exceptions, have been in the world of faux SS, though once you listen to your DVD with a 5.1 system, you will not want to go back. Beyond the DD 5.1 SS, there are others. I've begun playing with DTS, with some astounding results. Note: you can only include DTS as a optional Audio Track in Encore, with a Menu to choose the alternate. You MUST have either a PCM/WAV or AC3 DD (stereo, or SS) Audio Track for it to fit into the DVD spec. Some PAL specs allow for MPG Audio, but I'm not sure if this is allowed in the "required," or is just an "optional" for PAL. Neil Wilkes on the Encore board can tell you better, especially as he's in the UK - PAL land.

Last comment: while I use Audition for most of my Audio work, Audacity (freeware) has multi-channel capabilities. My first foray into SS was done in Audacity with a SS re-mix of a stereo music file. Then I found that I had more, already with Audition, so I began learning and using it instead. If you want to begin experimenting, I'd suggest playing around with Audacity. Unfortunately, getting the end results onto a 5.1 system, if you do not have a 5.1 sound card and speakers on your computer, is not that easy. A DVD is the best delivery medium, hence why I purchased the SurCode plug-in - twice!

Remember, if you DO buy the SurCode plug-in, be certain to do it from within Premiere and save the money.

Hunt

[momoffduty]

Thanks again for the detailed explanation. I understand things better if I know the 'how' & 'why' and can apply it later for future use.

As for the faux SS, not ready for that so will hold off on the SurCode. I did see a tutorial for a faux SS and faux sterio and played with the mixer a bit when I first got Pro.

When I exported the video only as a DV-AVI the compression default was DV(24pAdvanced) and the Bit Depth was set as project settings. Is this correct?

Ran a 2nd test: exported from Pro project to Encore option and this gave me a transcoded m2v & WAV and a new Encore project started with the video as a timeline. Was able to burn.

When I running my tests in June/July this method would not work. Encore did not want to accept the m2v file. Had to export only thru the multiplexer as a muxed MPEG2. This was the only file that worked. Strange now that Encore will now burn with the m2v and the DV-AVI files. The only thing that has changed is that I have more free space on my C drive....unless I am overlooking something.

Your option of exporting as a DV-AVI allows more than one timeline and also can mix Pro projects on one Encore project, which sometimes is my workflow. (May want to burn 3 short separate projects on one DVD.)

Thanks for all of the info and I will check out the book you mentioned.

[Bill Hunt]

Cheryl,

As I do not shoot 24p, or 24pA, I cannot help you there. I do know that Encore has had some problems with m2v files, but as they do not come into my workflow, I have not closely followed those threads - sorry. I cannot imagine why your workflow would work at one point, but not at another. Maybe a search of the Adobe Encore forum will yield something that is useful to you, with "m2v." Wish I could offer more.

Yes, the workflow from Pro allows one to mix-n-match, to their heart's content, or to the size of the DVD. As I edit each "chapter," as though it was a separate Project, I'm able to have greater flexibility, with regards to how they play out of Encore. I do not have to worry about Chapter markers, or Chapter Playlists, unless I need them for intricate navigation. I think I've used them twice in several years. Still, the downside is that one does need to do two Exports, one for the DV-AVI and one for the AC3. Total time is approximately as doing a mux'ed MPEG-2 file (except if one has done a Render - that will speed the MPEG-2) up nicely. Still - two Exports.

Hunt

[momoffduty]

Thanks Bill for your invaluable advice. I will research the various compression options. With the bit budgeting, I just skimmed that chapter. My eyes did glaze over a bit and I usually like numbers. Hard to make a decision or calculate when I don't understand the options.

[Bill Hunt]

Cheryl,

I heartily agree with you. Plus, it's easy to make a few incorrect assumptions along the way. For me, one of the biggest problems is getting a handle of the "overhead" for my Menu structure. Sometimes, I'm pushing the 1GB limit. If I just calculate the full 1GB, 'cause I "feel," that I'm close, then I'm short-changing my Assets - but by how much?

When one has dissimilar Assets (heavy motion in some, but a lot of near-static for others), some quality can be gained by setting the bit-rate higher for the motion, and lower for the static. The bit-rate calculators are not difficult, but plugging in all of the variables for many variables can be a tad tricky.

Most of the problems that I see, are from folk exceeding the max. bit-rate (combined for Audio & Video) at some spot. Along with bit-rate calculations, using a bit-rate viewer is a good check, to see if there are any "spikes" along the way. Since Encore (and PE) do such a good job with regards to bit-rate calculations, I usually just leave it up to them. If I find problems in my higher motion Clips, then I'll get out the paper and pencil.

Like most things in these Adobe programs, there is more than one way to get to an end. The exact method will vary by Project and by user. I can usually find four different ways to something in Photoshop - my way, and three others. Which is right? The one that the user is comfortable with, even if it takes 2 more keystrokes. Well that's MY opinion at least.

I have a few articles on bit-rate calculation, that I'll locate and post links to for anyone so inclined. There is much to benefit, given an Asset, but I usually do not have footage that really requires a Clip by Clip manual Transcode. Like I said, Encore does a really good job on its own.

Hunt

[JRjr]

I'm not clear about using the Adobe Encoder, versus Export Movie option. I do understand about wanting a separate video & audio file.

Does the Encoder not give you the option of just Video or just Audio, such that both can be done, just as if exporting movie?

Export movie gives you an avi, and Encoder results in mpg, etc. But once in Encore, either avi or mpg would have to be converted for the final DVD output.

I don't really think one might be better than the other, but I'm just trying to understand in case there IS something I should be, and am not, aware of.

As always, Thanks.

Jim

[momoffduty]

Jim, there is an option in the Adobe Media Encoder to select Mpeg2-DVD & select quality. Click on the multiplexer tab and select DVD. This will give you a muxed Mpeg2 file.

I am sure Bill can give you a better explanation.