Computer turning itself off.

[Cinde]

I did not purchase this computer myself. It was part of a new business start-up package from my venture capital angel. If I were the original purchaser I?d demand a refund. I could then use that refund to purchase the computer Chuck, Steve and others have recommended since I first joined this forum.

When I first got the computer in January it was damaged in transit by UPS. I refused delivery and UPS authorized its return to the factory and I didn't receive it back for almost a month. Now I?ve been using it about 5 weeks and I?m having some major problems. These are different that what has already been discussed in other posts. I have diligently followed everyone?s advice and run only one application at a time.

The current problems first started when the computer would shut itself down but all the lights were still on and the fan kept running. Then it would reboot itself in a few seconds.

Then it would shut down and not reboot itself, but I was able to turn it back on with the on/off button.

Then I could not turn it back on until I completely unplugged the power supply, plug it back in and then start with the on/off button.

Now I?m getting a combination of these weird turn-offs several times a day.

I?m passing on information to the venture capital angel by phone daily as well as to the factory by e-mail. Now we have to wait to see if UPS will still honor the insurance on the initial damage. That will determine whether I receive a new replacement or a repair on this one. So now I?m in limbo waiting for them to reach a resolution. I can?t even go back to my old compute because I have already given it away.

[Ron]

1. Sounds like it might be overheating. Can you hear the cooling fan (I rule out dirt clogging vents since it's so new). You can try opening the CPU case just for troubleshooting. And if it's that new, it should be warranteed and maybe a replacement is an order.

2. Another possibility is some sort of spyware/trojan. I've heard in the past of certain mal-ware that mimics these types of symptoms. Do you perform scans regularly?

3. In addition, it may be just a loose card. When you open the case for troubleshooting, just have a look around in there and maybe re-seat all of the cards (make sure power is off when you do) and connectors.

Just a few things to try. Good luck.

[Chuck Engels]

I completely agree with Ron's thoughts and suggestions.

[Bob]

Lots of things can cause rebooting. I had a very similar experience with my computer recently and that turned out to be a bad motherboard. I've replaced the board and everything is running great now.

Turning off or rebooting like that is not normal. Something is defective. Since the system is new, it should be covered by warrenty. Even if you received a replacement from the original claim, the replacement should be covered for the remainder of the warrenty period. Keep after the manufacturer. Don't let them use UPS as a delaying tactic. The warrenty is between you and the manufacturer. If the factory wants to recoup from UPS, that's between them and honoring the warrenty shouldn't depend on it. If you get no progress, perhaps you should consider taking them to small claims court.

[Ken Jarstad]

I had a problem like this about 18 months ago after building my own computer. Turns out the power suppy (new) was bad. No other indicators of a problem but random reboot or what should have been a reboot - just lights on and nobody home. I found a topic on another forum that listed power supplies that had a history of being unreliable. Since I always shop for the lowest price on my projects I ended up, unkowingly, buying a PSU built by a company with a bad reputation. Replaced it and now my 3 GHz P4 safely overclocks during rendering to 3.9 GHz! Check the manufacturer name on the PSU and then consult the list. Here is the URL for you:

http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=142753

[Chuck Engels]

Now that you mention it Ken, we had two computers at church that are used for our internet broadcast. They were both rebooting randomly a few times a day, turned out it was the power supply on both of them. That really threw us for a loop because we didn't expect two bad power supplies at the same time, even though the computers were identical and purchased together

[Cinde]

Ron, my worst fear about using a computer is having to open the CPU case. I?ve never done that before. But now it looks as if I am going to have to learn. I don?t have antivirus software on the computer. I use Firefox, and Norton Symantec?s online scan doesn?t recognize Firefox. I did load IE long enough to try to do an online scan but the computer shut down before I could finish it. I keep SpyBot S&D updated and run it weekly.

Bob, there was no replacement. The original computer was repaired. As far as warranty, yeah it?s still under warranty. It takes 3 to 5 days (depending on weekends) to ship it one way, plus the time they need to check it out? that means another 15 or more days before I could get it back again. I am getting so discouraged.

Ken, I looked at the back of the power supply but could not see any info for a manufacturer. When I take the case off will I see it easily or will I have to take it apart also??

Chuck, what can I say? Do you roll your eyes every time you see another ?Cinde needs help? post?
To quote what you said a few weeks ago: ?It could take us months trying to figure out all of this in a forum. I am not against trying to do that if you want to but most people get very frustrated after the first week or two.? But we did manage to get it taken care of. Everyone keeps helping me. Without you and the rest of these wonderful people I would have quit weeks ago.

I?m like the little engine that could? I think I can, I think I can? Now where?s that screwdriver?

[Bob]

Check your warrenty and don't do anything that will invalidate it. As frustrating as it may be, returning it for diagnosis and repair may be what you'll have to do.

I suspect that reseating the cards will not help. Lots of things can cause rebooting -- overheating, bad memory, viruses, etc. But, with the resetting behavior you describe, it really sounds more like a power supply and/or motherboard problem. If you do decide to open the case, be sure the computer is unplugged. Power is still being applied to the motherboard even if the computer is off. Most power supplies have a on/off switch on the back, but it's safer to pull the plug. Don't try to open the power supply.

Good luck, I hope you get this resolved quickly.

[Ron]

Yeah, that's what I meant by "over-heating" - 9 times out of 10 it's a defective power supply (PS) thermal disconnecting, a safety feature. A lot of times, the fan intake is so clogged with debris that it doesn't cool the PS adequately and you get similar symptoms. Ruled that out because of the computer being so new.

Either way, if you're afraid to perform any of the basic troubleshooting steps (nothing wrong with that !), I would look into the warranty and/or calling a professional.

[Ken Jarstad]

When I take the case off will I see it easily or will I have to take it apart also??

You will have to open the case to see the PSU, power supply unit. There will be a tag affixed to it with, among other things, the make, model and manufacturer.

[Cinde]

I did take the casing off. All I saw on the PSU was: ATX Switching Power Supply AC Input 115v/230v plus a lot of other volt and amp things, final line said max combined watts 450 w. Didn't see any apparent make, model, mfg. on the red sticker (unless ATX is one of those). I could see only one side of the PSU since I only took one side of the casing off.

It's a waiting game right now. They are leaning toward paying for me to take it to a local tech for troubleshooting. But it's not a final decision yet.

[Ken Jarstad]

Didn't see any apparent make, model, mfg. on the red sticker (unless ATX is one of those).

ATX only refers to the "form factor" of your hardware case, motherboard, etc. Perhaps the manufacturer is not proud enough of its product to display their name!

To an old hardware jockey, getting into the case and knowing exactly the configuration and capabilities of the hardware seems easy for me. Problem is, as I see it, your "venture capital angel" is actually putting his capital at risk since your productivity is severly hampered. For someone who does not have the luxery of tinkering with the PC until you are familiar with its components, I would pitch him/her for a new Dell XPS series configured expressly for video work. That would only leave mastering the application and your talent as the remaining factors for success.

And while I'm giving you all this wonderful free advice, you didn't say whether your business venture involved video. I just "intuited" that. For a successful business in video editing I would recommend more than one PC. Your editing machine should be stripped-down, no connection to the Internet, no spy-virus scanners and the fastest thing you can get. Use another one, say from Dells business desktop line for everything else including Internet.

I once would have suggested another machine just for DVD burning but now, we really have no business burning our own DVDs to sell. In fact I may soon quit burning altogether. The reason why may astound you and everyone here. I know a place that will prepare DVDs complete with shrink-wrapped cases and even ship product for you for only $1.60 usd! You can either upload or mail in your project. This is an astonishing resource, to me. Best of luck to you.

http://www.kunaki.com/

[Chuck Engels]

Wow Ken, that place is pretty amazing. Have you actually had them do some work for you yet?

[Cinde]

No computer repair shop in my town. Networking found IT dept at local hospital, took to his home. Confirmed PSU defective (but no overheating). Installed (used - 6 month old) Rosewill 350w power supply in my computer until I decide what to do. Also installed Norton Antivirus Corporate Edition.

I did follow Ken Jarstad?s link to look on cdfreak?s list.

I need your suggestions now. Here are my options ?
1. Buy his and leave it in the computer. (on cdfreak?s bad list)
2. Buy a new one and pay him to install it.
a. Local Staples has Antec 430W for $79.98, but it?s not in stock and they cannot order it online. (on cdfreak good list)
b. Local Radio Shack has only Manhattan 500W for $39.99 (in stock - not on cdfreak list)
c. Order from New Egg --- recommendations please

PS to Ken, you are right on target with my business plan. My first memorial video was very basic. But I?m learning much more as I?m doing a wedding anniversary, 50th birthday, and reunion. In exchange for my freebie to them I get permission to use their videos as demos for future clients.

Right now I?m bringing clients photos to my home for scanning and some of them are really reluctant to turn lose of their treasures for a few days. When I start making income from sales I?ll be able to buy a laptop and scanner to go partially portable into my client?s businesses and homes. My next goal is to do video editing for my grandchildren?s sport activities. I?ve already been asked about VSH conversion, archiving 8mm and negatives. Maybe that will be in the future.

I'm taking it one step at a time to learn the software, focus on buying a laptop & scanner, then a 2nd computer dedicated only to graphics/video.

[Bob]

Besides being on the "bad list", 350W is considered sub-marginal these days. Not knowing what your system has in the case, something around the original PSU's 450W rating is probably a safe guide as to what you should shoot for.

I'd stay away from the Radio Shack 500W supply -- it might not be on the list, but $40 for a 500W PSU doesn't sound like a quality unit.

I have an Antec Smart Power 450W PSU - it came with the Antec case I purchased. The power supply fans stopped working after 1 week and I was able to take the case back to where I bought it and exchange it for a new case -- same model. The power supply in that one has been working for two years with no problems. Antec has had a reputation for reliable power supplies, but I've been hearing of problems with the Smart Power series. I haven't heard anything bad about the other PSU series they manufacture.

I haven't had to research power supplies recently so I'll let the others make a recommendation. Maybe Ken can suggest a good one. NewEgg does have user ratings on the products. You might want to look at those.