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Low Cost Camera for Football

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Low Cost Camera for Football

Postby VernonRobinson » Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:21 pm

A friend of mine asked what kind of camera would I recommend for shooting high school football. His son is a Senior this year. He has permission to shoot from the top of the press box. I am not so sure this is an advantage :) . But he is trying to keep costs low, but quality up. I know this is asking for beer from the water fountains, a solution for world hunger, and peace in our time. But I need to ask. I also know that there are some cameras which perform better than others under certain circumstances. I have a Canon HV30, but I worry about the lack of zoom. Also, since it is a high school field, who knows how good the lighting would be.

Any thoughts on using some of the Digital SLRs to do this type of filming? Would a 70 - 200 zoom be any better than a typical camcorder zoom? I realize that I have hot given you any real information. But in order to shape the conversation, what do you think could be had in the $500 - $1000 range, if anything?

Thanks,
-Vernon
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Re: Low Cost Camera for Football

Postby VernonRobinson » Tue Jun 15, 2010 1:26 pm

Any thoughts on these Panasonic models?

HDC-HS60
HDC-TM700
HDC-TM300

I know there are others. I am looking to keep the zoom range up and CamcorderInfo seems to rate these pretty high.

-Vernon
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Re: Low Cost Camera for Football

Postby Chuck Engels » Tue Jun 15, 2010 1:44 pm

Night filming will be the biggest problem, without a 3CCD lens you won't get enough light to prevent a grainy video.
Good thing there is NeatVideo to help take the graininess out. Will this be shot from the field or from the stands?

I have a couple of friends that have shot high school football, one with a very inexpensive Panasonic miniDV camcorder the other with a GS500. Neither of them got the quality they wanted but were satisfied with the end results.

Zoom has a direct effect on the amount of light coming into the lens. You don't want to zoom in low light if possible.
I would recommend getting as much practice footage as possible to make sure to get the proper settings before the first game. The more manual options there are the better off you will be but the more there is to learn.

The HV30 isn't the best low light camera but it might be very good at field level. Best thing you can do is to test it out.
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Re: Low Cost Camera for Football

Postby VernonRobinson » Tue Jun 15, 2010 2:06 pm

Thanks Chuck. That fits with my DSLR experience. Right now he has no camcorder. I happen to own the HV30. He has permission to shoot from the top of the press box. So he will have a birds-eye view of the field, but he will be further away.

So if you had to weight the decision variables, how would you do it? Developing a decision matrix is probably a good approach. Is 3CCD the overriding concern? I get concerned because when you look at the lux rating, many of them are pretty low. Even with a single CCD. I imagine it is similar to the DSLR where the 3CCD will give you a better signal to noise ratio.

Just listing off the top of my head here are some of the decision criteria. Other ideas or criteria suggestions are welcomed.

-Vernon


3 CCD
AVCHD
Optical Zoom
< 10X
< 15X
< 25X
> 25X

Image Stabilization
LANC capability
Cost
< 500
< 700
< 1000
> 1000


Medium
Tape
Hard Drive
Memory Card
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Re: Low Cost Camera for Football

Postby stanatou » Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:29 am

As a starting point, you might check to see what the high school's sports department is using for the video they use to evaluate the game. My son went to a very small school but even they managed to record the games so the coaches could evaluate them and I'm pretty sure they didn't have a particularly high caliber camera. I shot a lot of video of the games as well but I was able to work from the sidelines so the lighting wasn't a big problem...being in the right place at the right time was the hard part :-D .

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Re: Low Cost Camera for Football

Postby VernonRobinson » Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:43 am

Stan,
Thanks for the reply. Yes, I can see where being on the Press Box is advantageous with its birds-eye view. But it comes with some negatives. Being on the sidelines is good, but as you noted, being in the right place is a bit tricky.

His school is also very small. I will see my friend today. I will ask him about how and if the school films its games. They may not. But if they did, why not see if he could snip and edit pieces out their footage. That might be a viable solution and even lower cost. Thanks for the idea.

Regards,
-Vernon
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Re: Low Cost Camera for Football

Postby GerryB » Thu Jun 17, 2010 4:29 am

Vernon,

Good morning to you.

A couple of questions I would add to your matrix would be;
-Who is the customer?
-Where will the video be viewed?
-How often will the video be viewed?

Aside:
Is the ‘football’ that game where the players wear body armour and cash helmets or is it the one with the round ball where most games end 0-0? Maybe it is that football game that originated in Rugby, England ……

If the video is to be played back on a regular basis to a discerning audience then go for a Grade A camera, if it is to be used for coaching the team then a utility camera will suffice. Collating clips of various aspects of the game will be more important than colour matching. If the video is for friends who will watch it once or twice and then ‘put it in the drawer’ then the camera is only recording memories which will never be broadcast.

As to touchline v gallery; if the video is for coaching purposes then record from the gallery every time. The camera zoom will be more than sufficient as the focus of the recording will be on the wider view of the game to capture the various match play options. Additionally, anyone videoing from the touchline will run the risk of capturing all the extraneous audio coming from the spectators, some/all of which may need to be edited out!!

The other concern about videoing on the touchline will be the loss of concentration whilst recording due to the ‘distractions’ that may be around on the touchline. This could lead to a loss of key moments in the game. Video recording a game is a lonely occupation!!

Finally, touchline recordings will only have any real perspective in an arc of about 35m, beyond that distance all relative positions of the players will be lost.

Light levels for evening games; is there a minimum Lux level set for pitch lights for evening games, there is here in the UK; 200 Lux for matches, 100 for training sessions. This may help you decided on the sensitivity specification for the camera.
[See para 17.2.8 in http://www.rfu.com/TheGame/Regulations/GameRegulations/17Grounds.aspx]

Will your friend’s College have a radio mic kit that the referee uses to relay his/her decision to the PA system for the crowd? If yes, then is it possible to get hold of a second receiver [a scanning receiver may do] and connect it to the camera input. Yes, I should have added to the matrix that the camera should have an external mic input. Having the referee comments recorded will make the video more interesting and enjoyable.

Apologies for rambling on for so long, but I hope this helps,

Gerry
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Re: Low Cost Camera for Football

Postby VernonRobinson » Thu Jun 17, 2010 11:25 am

Gerry,
Thanks for the response. The video is of the uniquely American game of football. I like the body armour reference :) . His intent is to capture memories of his son's Senior year in high school. He was a big football nut in high school and college. Thanks for the suggestions, I agree that sideline filming has a limited range.

I went to see their playing field yesterday. I am not sure what the lighting level will be. The lights were on, but it was not dark yet. The thing I am concerned about is the distance. I would guess that from the top of the press box to the otherside of the field is at least 400 - 500 ft. The press box is at mid field. So a camera that can get good magnifcation at 600 feet would fit the ticket nicely.

An external mike feed would be a good add. I will put it in the rubric.

Thanks,
-Vernon
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