Focus problems with HV40

[peggig]

I've been having some problems with the autofocusing in my HV40. I'm using it in Auto mode, but sometimes it will not focus on the subject in the center foreground of the frame. It wants to focus on the background, instead. I created a short video with two examples of this behavior. (I couldn't get this to display embedded, so here's the link on vimeo. http://www.vimeo.com/8299982)

In the first clip, when I zoom in on the branch with the acorn cache, the camera focuses on the background, rather than the branch, which is in the center foreground. When I zoom out, the focus is restored. The tree is far enough away that there can be no question of being too close to the subject.

In the second clip, the camera will not focus on the bird in the mist net, but will only focus on the background. Again, I don't think it's an issue of being too close. I'm standing a couple of yards away. Later, when the bird bander put his hand next to the bird, it was able to focus on his hand. (I think, at that point, it was because the background was almost completely blocked out and there was nothing else to focus on. But even then, it kept losing focus as his hand moved.)

Has anyone else had this problem with the Canon HV40 (or other camcorders)? It's very frustrating because, no matter how I try to reframe the subject, or adjust the zoom, I cannot get it to focus on the object in the foreground that's centered in the frame. Manual focus just doesn't work for me using an LCD screen. Even using the tiny viewfinder, I can't really be sure of my focus, so I leave in on auto-focus all the time.

[George Tyndall]

Manual focus just doesn't work for me using an LCD screen. Even using the tiny viewfinder, I can't really be sure of my focus, so I leave in on auto-focus all the time.

The manual suggests using MF for the most professional-looking results, but as you noted it's not always easy to focus manually.

Here's how I've gotten good results: In the Menu, turn on the Peak setting and then set the camera to aperture priority. Choose the largest aperture, which is probably 1.8. If the light is bright the camera will increase the shutter speed so you're not overexposed. It the light is minimal, the shutter speed will slow to compensate, but with the aperture wide open the camera will still be easy to focus.

Apart from easier focusing, the nice thing about the wide-open aperture setting is that the object that you are focusing on is emphasized, while the rest of the image will be somewhat out of focus. This looks especially good in portraits.

[Bobby]

I have the HV-30, so some question as to how similar they are.

I do see what you are saying. Autofocus can be an odd bird sometimes (no pun intended). The algorithms used are not always obvious.

BUT, there is an override. If you go into programmable mode instead of Auto (flip the switch from Auto to P) there is a Focus Priority option that you can set for full autofocus or Center. It is in the Camera Setup section of my manual starting on page 37, but again my manual may be different.

Auto mode is nice for quick stuff, but if you are doing a serious video, I recommend learning how to use P-mode anyhow - there are lots of other options that you may find useful and may make your video better. Go for it...

[peggig]

Thank you George and Bobby.

George, that's an interesting suggestion. I always use aperture priority for still photography, and I almost always use the widest aperture. However, I wasn't sure how that would work with video. I'm always shooting on a tight schedule, so I've never really had time to experiment with the video camera, but I think I'm going to have to do that now.

Bobby, WRT manual focus, how do you keep your subject in focus when zooming or panning? Without a focus ring, it seems like it would be difficult to make fine adjustments, especially when you can't really see what's in focus on an LCD screen. Even with my digital SLR, I have difficulty with manual focus, and I think that may be due to my own rather poor eyesight. But, with the tiny LCD screen, combined with moving subjects, it seems impossible.

[Bobby]

I have to confess that I haven't use manual focus much and the lack of a ring does bother me. But given the type of lenses used in these things and especially keeping the aperture small they have a lot of depth of field anyhow so the adjustment shouldn't be that critical. If you are shooting outdoors you should have plenty of light and be able to stop down enough.

On the other hand, the thumbwheel thingie they use is a lot better than other implementations on camcorders I have seen. Play with it...

[peggig]

Do you think these focus issues could indicate a problem with the camcorder? It's still under warranty. If nobody else is having similar issues, I'm concerned that it could be a defect.

One time recently, I turned it on and nothing was in focus. I moved it around, but it didn't make any attempt to focus. I turned it off and back on with no results. Then I put my hand about two inches from the lens and moved it back slowly. It focused on my hand and, when I took my hand away, it refocused and everything was fine.

I'm interested in knowing if anybody else has had any focusing problems with their Canon HV* series camcorders, or if this one might have some sort of defect in its focusing mechanism. What do you think?

[Bobby]

I haven't had any problem, although it is slow sometimes.

I don't think there is a "mechanism". It's not like the old 35mm range finder days of using a split screen, etc. Most of the focus these days is done by software, usually looking to sharpen lines or increase contrast. Of course there is a mechanism for making the lens focus, but it is all controlled by software.

But I really don't know the underlying HV-xx technology, so if somebody knows otherwise, please chime in.

But if you are unhappy, it might be worth a service call.

[Chuck Engels]

Sometimes you need to zoom in on an object/subject, get the focus, and then zoom out.
Even moving closer to the subject if necessary, then moving farther away.

The manual focus can be achieved with the focus dial while zooming but it isn't easy.

The auto focus works better in good light and not a lot of shadows.
The better the light the easier and faster the auto focus works.

I think it is just a matter of getting used to how it works, play around with it in different lighting conditions.
Give it a try inside, outside, at the mall, or driving down the road.
The more you use it the easier it will be

[Chuck Engels]

I wanted to bring this thread back up as I have started to notice this problem more and more.
At times it is really hard to get a focus on the correct subject with Auto Focus. I have been shooting more video with the HV40 lately and have a few clips that I thought were in focus when shooting only to find out when watching the tape that the background was in focus and not the subject. I have even noticed the focus switching from foreground to background, in the middle of recording, for no apparent reason.

I am curious as to what others are doing to help ensure proper focus of the subject and not background or other areas. At least as far as the Auto Focus goes.

The manual focus works fine as long as the subject is not moving toward or away from the camera. But it is not he easiest thing to accomplish either. It seems that if you can have a focus wheel, like the HV40 has, you could have just as well added a focus ring instead

Anyway, any advice or help appreciated as always

[Ken Jarstad]

My HV20 is 'set and forget' to I.AF, Instant Auto Focus. It works very well for me. Only in a very dark room have I noticed the auto-focus hunting a bit. But it is very quick to adjust. I have not noticed the tendency to focus on background objects although, curiously, my Canon S3 still camera has this problem with close up shots of flowers and such. I recall reading that Canon's processor Digic II is common to both still and video. My S3 also is fussy about white balance under florescent lights where the HV20 seems to be impervious - I don't even need to use the alternate lighting presets. I always run the HV20 in Cine Mode, if that makes any difference.

[George Tyndall]

I am curious as to what others are doing to help ensure proper focus of the subject and not background or other areas. At least as far as the Auto Focus goes.

The manual focus works fine as long as the subject is not moving toward or away from the camera. But it is not he easiest thing to accomplish either. It seems that if you can have a focus wheel, like the HV40 has, you could have just as well added a focus ring instead

Anyway, any advice or help appreciated as always

Chuck, in the very-informative DVD that B&H includes with an HV30 purchase, this topic is discussed. The demonstration is of two dark dogs on a bright beach. The dogs are wandering toward and away from the camera on the beach, and when one walks toward the camera while the other walks away, the auto-focus goes haywire (keeps searching for a focus).

The suggestion of the authors of the DVD is that, most of the time, professional videographers should avoid auto-focus and instead use Manual Focus (MF). In the case of the dogs on the beach, the solution is to manually focus the camera on a spot that is intermediate between the two dogs in the hope that the depth-of-field will be enough that both the forward and the rear dogs stay in focus as they wander back and forth.

Although the DVD does not go into this, it might also be necessary to switch to aperture-priority and stop the lens down to adequately increase the depth-of-field.