Canon HF20 - any thoughts?

[peggig]

The 3-chip models are out of my price range, and I also have shoulder injury so I'm trying to keep the weight as light as possible. Panasonic seems to be about to come out with a 3-chip model that's fairly light weight, but with a lot of high end features and a magnesium alloy body, called the AG-HMC40. From the specs, it appears to be an HD upgrade to the popular (but discontinued) AG-DVC30. The only problem is, it's also an AVCHD camera. And it has a touch screen LCD that has gotten poor reviews for usability. Too bad.

Then again, it uses the same 1/4" sensors that are in Panasonic's higher end 3-chip consumer camcorders. Looking at side by side comparisons of the video, I prefer the Canon image quality, with one larger sensor, to the Panasonic image quality with the three smaller sensors.

Most of my editing is transitions, though at present, I find myself having to do a lot of color correction as well. However, I think that's because the camera I'm using is pretty old and I suspect there's something wrong with the sensor, or perhaps the processor isn't as good as the current ones. The color will fluctuate pretty dramatically during a single take, and I have to split the clip and fiddle with the RGB values to try to mitigate the fluctuations. I'm hoping this will no longer be an issue when I get a new camera. I suspect the camera is overreacting to small changes in the quality of the light due to clouds moving by, or peculiarities introduced by fluorescent light in indoor shots (thought I do most of my shooting outdoors). Does anybody else ever have this problem? If so, what do you do about it?

[jackfalbey]

The color issues you're having are most likely because of the older camera. A new HV30 or HV40, along with proper white balancing before each shoot should eliminate the need for any color correction in post. Fluorescent light does have a different color temperature than sunlight, but that's where white balancing comes in to make sure the footage looks the same.

And everything I've seen indicates that the single-chip Canons do produce a better overall image than the 3-chip Panny consumer cams. For under $1000, I still think the HV30/40 is your best bet for what you do.

[peggig]

Go to hv20.com and download sample video from each camera you're considering. Then try them with your workflow to see which is better for you.

I went to the site, but I didn't see where you can download files from different cameras. Can you post a direct link? Thanks!

[jackfalbey]

Sorry. There isn't a specific download area; you'll have to search for users who have posted clips in various threads. That website, however, is an excellent resource for all things related to Canon Hi-Def consumer cams. We regularly refer to postings there.

[John 'twosheds' McDonald]

I suspect the camera is overreacting to small changes in the quality of the light due to clouds moving by.....

This is likely caused by the auto exposure setting 'hunting' as the light intensity changes. If you have a manual exposure facility on the camera try using that on a test shot to see if the problem is resolved.

[peggig]

Thanks, John. When there are fluctuations in light, for example on a partly cloudy day when clouds are moving fairly swiftly, with a still camera, you can adjust shot by shot. But, when taping an interview, you can't stop the interview to adjust the white balance. I usually leave it on auto in that situation, because I figure it will adjust automatically, but it does a pretty poor job of it. Will setting it manually give better results under changing light circumstances? Assuming you can't predict how much of the shot will be in sunlight, and how much with clouds, which white balance setting would you use?

[jackfalbey]

I wouldn't use the white balance presets that come with the camcorder... your best bet is to get a true white or 18% grey card from B&H and use that to manually set the white balance for each different lighting condition.

[John 'twosheds' McDonald]

..... But, when taping an interview, you can't stop the interview to adjust the white balance.

A little confusion I think. I was refering to the auto exposure of the shot, not the white balance. You can see the same effect (change of light intensity) when videoing (for example) a middle distance scene of a subject and a dark vehicle crosses the shot in or near the foreground. The camera auto exposure tries to compensate for the change in light conditions and almost always sends the middle distance scene too light. As soon as the 'thing' that caused the change has passed the clip immediately darkens again, possibly over darkening, before steadying again. (I hope that explanation makes sense).

So my suggestion was to set the exposure to 'manual' if your camera has that facility, and to try a test to see if that helps.

[jackfalbey]

And just to clarify my last post... you only need to set the white balance at the beginning of the shoot, not in the middle. If you change locations, say from indoors under fluorescent lighting to outdoors under daylight, you would need to set the white balance again. It's a lot easier to do it this way than to try to do color correction in post.

[peggig]

The problem I'm experiencing with this camera is not with the exposure fluctuating within the shot, but the white balance. For example, the person I'm interviewing will start out looking perfectly normal and, in the course of the interview, their skin tone will fluctuate between having a greenish cast to a magenta cast, or bluish to orange and back, multiple times throughout the same shot. I'm assuming this is in reaction to clouds passing over the sun, or perhaps peculiarities introduced by fluorescent lighting when it happens indoors. On the other hand, it may just be a defective sensor. I don't really know. (That's why I'm hoping getting a new camcorder might solve that particular problem all by itself.)

[jackfalbey]

The color on the video shouldn't change from clouds passing over the sun... the color temperature of sunlight stays the same even if the brightness is diminished by cloud cover; likewise the color temp of a fluorescent light should also remain constant. If you were switching between fluorescent and incandescent light during the interview (turning them on & off) that might account for it, but my guess is that the problem is within your current camcorder.

[peggig]

I suspect it is a problem with the camera. (At least, I very much hope so.) It's a real pain to try to find the exact frame where it changes most dramatically, and split it, then try to adjust the RBG values to match. Especially when the fluctuation happens over the course of several frames...

I'm really looking forward to getting a new camera. I've pretty much settled on the HV40. I won't need it until mid-October, so I'm going to wait a few weeks and see if it goes on sale anywhere. If anybody hears of a good price on an HV40 (or HV30) in the next month or so, please let me know!

[peggig]

Quick question. I'm planning on getting the HV40, and I'm also thinking of getting a cheap used camcorder for capturing the video to my computer, to save wear and tear on the tape transport mechanism in the HV40. My question is, is it possible to use an older, standard definition camera to capture HDV video (from a tape recorded on an HDV camera) to the computer? Or can the older non-HDV camera even play back an HDV tape?

[jackfalbey]

Unfortunately, DV cameras cannot play back HDV-formatted tapes. You'll have to play them from your HV40 when capturing.

Alternatively, if you have a Firewire-equipped laptop (or a laptop with an ExpressCard slot that will take a Firewire adapter) you can capture live from the HV40 in HDV directly to the laptop's hard drive, thereby negating the need to capture from tape altogether.

If you really want to go for maximum quality, you can also capture live Full-HD 1920x1080 4:2:2 directly from the HV40's sensor via HDMI, bypassing the HDV compression altogether, but this requires additional specialized equipment.

[Steve Grisetti]

And, if it's any consolation, the chances of wearing out your new camcorder by capturing video are pretty much nil. You'd more likely wear out a tape first -- and then you'd have to advance and rewind a couple thousand times.

So go ahead and use your new cam for shooting as well as capturing. Chances are you'll upgrade to brand new technology 5 or 10 years from now before you'll wear out that motor.