Death of Consumer Tape

[Bobby]

I was in Best Buy today (this is the third thread this trip has generated!) and I got the news from a salesperson: Best Buy is no longer selling consumer tape-based units, period. I am pretty sure that he meant both SD and HD; I sure didn't see any HD tape. It is now company policy according to him.

[momoffduty]

I am sorta shocked at this news. Meaning my local BB only carries a few tape based camcorders, at least at Christmas when I was looking. Does this mean they will no longer sell tape either? Usually get mine there, if so, will have to order ahead by mail.

[tiny]

I guarantee this was a misinformed employee. While many manufacturers have vastly scaled back their HV linup, the top ones (Sony, Canon) offer an excellent HDV model that still can't be replaced by hard drives. I bet he meant SD (HV) models.

[JohnnyO]

I was in Best Buy today (this is the third thread this trip has generated!) and I got the news from a salesperson: Best Buy is no longer selling consumer tape-based units, period. I am pretty sure that he meant both SD and HD; I sure didn't see any HD tape. It is now company policy according to him.

I knew that SD tape based camcoders were an endangered species, but I didn't realize the same may be happening with HD tape bases camcorders.

I guess consumers are not buying the taped based HD camcorders as much as the Hard Drive amd memory based camcorders camcorders. I wonder if I will be able to ever get a tape based HD camcorder when I am ready to upgrade.

[tiny]

The hard drive tech is still lagging behind the capabilities of tape. The compression isn't as good. I'm sure in a few more years this won't be the case, but until then, I think Sony and Canon would be offending the users of a profitable product segment.

However, looking at how little the HV40 has changed from the 30, and 20. . . . It would appear that the HDV camcorders may not see any real improvement from here until they finally are done away with . . .

[Paul LS]

He was probably refering to consumer models... I dont think any companies will release any new taped based high definition camcorders... for Canon the HV40 will be the last one. Sony's latest released higher end HD consumer camcorders are not taped based. Only Pro models will still be available with tape.

[Bobby]

He was probably refering to consumer models... I dont think any companies will release any new taped based high definition camcorders... for Canon the HV40 will be the last one. Sony's latest released higher end HD consumer camcorders are not taped based. Only Pro models will still be available with tape.

Right. And Best Buy, especially in this economy, doesn't carry Pro models.

[JohnnyO]

The hard drive tech is still lagging behind the capabilities of tape. The compression isn't as good. I'm sure in a few more years this won't be the case, but until then, I think Sony and Canon would be offending the users of a profitable product segment.

I agree tape-based is better, but unfortunately, consumers are not buying them as much as Hard Drive Camcorders.

[tiny]

True, my hope/guess is that there is enough of a middle market to keep around HDV around for a few more years.

[John 'twosheds' McDonald]

Interesting article here on tape versus solid state in respect of the Sony Z5:

http://www.dvuser.co.uk/content.php?CID=216

and here, in respect of AVCHD:

http://www.dvuser.co.uk/content.php?CID=210

[momoffduty]

Thanks John the articles were very informative. The second one explained thoroughly how this works.

[Chris B]

Is it just me but....

Archiving your AVCHD clips on to regular 4.7GB DVDs or Blu-Ray DVDs is one of the safest method for long-term archiving.

I though DVD's had a limited lifespan...
http://newsterrorist.wordpress.com/2005/04/30/cd-r-dvd-r-lifespan-may-be-less-than-2-years/

Editing AVCHD footage from a solid-state workflow is both fast and easy.

Like all the people having problems with this very workflow on this forum. Easy perhaps if you have a corei7 with 12GB of memory and an SSD drive.

Recording times vary according to the recording quality, but as a rough example, recording to a 16GB SDHC card at 21Mbps at full 1920x1080 you could expect approximately 80 minutes of full HD footage. At 13Mbps 1920x1080 this would increase to around 120 minutes. Double these times when using a 32GB SDHC card. For wedding videographers needing long record times for those boring speeches, you can reach massive record times of approximately 12 hours in one take with a 32GB SDHC card in economy recording mode.

Except a 16GB card costs $46.39 (amazon current price) or $0.57/minute. $14.73 for 5 minidv cassettes or $0.05 per minute. And economy recording mode probably looks nasty....

AVCHD camcorders are aimed at exactly the same market as HDV. Only AVCHD is for those who want to move over from tape to a solid-state workflow, with an added improvement in image quality.

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=998
and
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Canon-Vixia-HF10-Camcorder-Review-34711/Performance.htm
At 17mbs the HF10 (at higher resolution than the HV30) produces a less sharp image. What's the point filming in HD if you don't actually get HD?

Now - I'm not saying that tape doesn't have a limited lifespan. It's probably time to say goodbye in the near future. However right now "consumer" camcorders really don't do HD any justice.

In retrospect I think that the trend is more to do with people being unwilling to edit video rather than unable. People just want it to plug in and work without spending five times (approximation) the time they took to film the shot in putting it together to view. It's the philosophy of "good enough" rather than actually "Good" and the pursuit of higher numbers. MP3s instead of CDs, 8 Megapixel phone cameras with plastic lenses 1cm across etc. I always remember the old classic - if someone says to you when you're watching a home movie "there's a good bit in a minute" ask yourself why you're watching this bit and not the "good bit"

Rant over - I'll go back to sleep now....

[Ken Jarstad]

Rant over - I'll go back to sleep now....

I enjoyed your rant --- and agree.

In politics they have a term called "wagging the dog". How that term might be translated to the consumer market place, I don't know but it seems to me that the changes in recent years have been manufacturer driven rather than consumer driven. The manufacturers have run out of profit margin on the existing tech so they need to move all of us along to the next innovation.

I, for one, find the optical drives and media have only recently become reasonably reliable yet they already want us to move to higher density drives and media - with the corresponding questionable reliability again. Personally, I think tape is an excellent, proven medium and the JVC digital recording format using VHS tape was an excellent way to go.

Rant away. I'll join you!

[John 'twosheds' McDonald]

Is it just me but.......

Chris, I don't think that it is just you by any means. And I think that Ken may have a very valid point when he talks about supplier rather than consumer driven.