What Are the Advantages, If Any, of Cine Mode?

[George Tyndall]

On the Canon HV20/30/40 site,* there are repeated references to shooting in 24p Cine Mode and then using various software to perform the "correct pulldown procedure" before editing. It appears from the discussions that virtually everyone owning a Canon HV20/30/40 would naturally want to shoot in this mode.

What are the advantages/disadvantages to shooting in this mode?

Can this mode be edited with PRE7?


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* http://www.hv20.com

[Bobby]

George, as a relative outsider in the business I have been trying to ponder it. The bottom line, I think, is just that movies are 24 frames per second. So some people think that video taken at the same rate looks more "movie-like". I guess if you stay 24 fps (or 24p) consistently that would be the only issue.

But if you translate that to a 30p medium, such as standard video, you have to create some extra frames, and that is what the various pulldown algorithms do. But doing that introduces some jerkiness or apparent latency (as frames are repeated) - so how can that look "better".

Perhaps somebody would add here as to what if any the advantages to 24p are, please.

[Bill Hunt]

George,

The feeling is that 24p footage will have more of a cinematic "look" to it, as opposed to looking like "video." There is a great discussion on the Adobe PrPro forum (down for a re-do right now), that goes into great detail on how best to achieve a "film look." Two forum regulars, Jim Simon and Dan Issacs, go into great detail on how best to shoot it, and then edit it in PrPro (PE should not be any different). I'll furnish a link to that discussion, when Adobe gets the fora changed over to the "new look." Plenty of good reading and suggestions for an ideal workflow.

There are also two versions of 24p, straight 24p and 24pa. There is also discussion on the differences between these two and the +/-'s of using one, vs the other. The choice is often limited by the exact method that the camera allows, and all mfgrs. do not accurately list what their camera will do.

Some cameras that list 24p, do a variation of the real 24p. I do not know the specs. on the Canon, so cannot comment on it specifically.

I should have that link by Tuesday, if Adobe's estimate of "up and running by Monday" holds true. Also, it might take me a moment to get used to the new interface with the Adobe Forums. If I do not post the link by Tuesday Evening, please send me a PM and remind me of my promise. Sometimes I need a gentle reminder of my promises.

Later,

Hunt

[Edit] Well, step in the right direction: Here's a link to the beginning of the descussion:
https://forum.adobe.com/webx?14@@.59b60633/358

This came via a Google search, so I do not know how active the Adobe server might be, and how well you can view and navigate. Note: I got a security certificate warning, in IE7 to access the page. My guess is that it's due to the maintenance of the Adobe forum. Still, should provide some reading, until the system is up. Happy reading.

[Chris B]

"Cinema mode" is a combination of things. Firstly there's the 24p (or 25p in PAL land) frame rate. There's also a "Cinema Mode" shooting mode which changes the Gamma response frame rate choice etc to give a more "film look". Response from a quick google has been "mixed" some people like it - some don't.

The advice I saw said that the lower frame rate (and the trouble editing 24p) means it's probably not worth it for normal home videos. However for amateur film makers it's probably an interesting option.

[Ken Jarstad]

George, the 'Cine Mode' and the 24p modes are independently selectable. I saw too many motion artifacts in high contrast outdoor scenes with my HV20 and tried the Cine Mode at the normal frame rate. The advantages are very obvious to me. Freedom from motion artifacts, fewer problems with contrast and saturation, tighter grain in dark areas so that typical low-light noise is imperceptible - and yes, there does seem to be some gamma adjustment. Now I always use the Cine Mode.

OTOH, trying to achieve the 'film look' has never appealed to me. If that is what you are really after then I had better not comment because my opinion is that we actually need much higher frame rates to avoid motion blur. The artistic folks here actually like blur!

[Bobby]

...OTOH, trying to achieve the 'film look' has never appealed to me. If that is what you are really after then I had better not comment because my opinion is that we actually need much higher frame rates to avoid motion blur. The artistic folks here actually like blur...

Yeah. Being a lifetime techno-nerd, bigger (or smaller, as the case may be) and faster is always better. Why accentuate the blur, and insert fake pulldown frames to get it? I guess I will never be an artiste.

[jackfalbey]

I agree with Ken. I always shoot in Cine Mode, but never 24p. I leave the format on the regular HDV setting (60i only on the HV20; 60i or 30p on the HV30 & 40). The HDV 24p was just too jerky for me, but the regular HDV looks great. I like the Cine Mode because it affects the "look & feel" of the video in a very pleasant way that saves me the trouble of trying to mess around with the cam's manual settings, or lots of tweaking in post. It's very subjective, but I like the richness of the colors and the way the video has a certain softness without losing the clarity and detail of high-definition. As much as I love the manual control of my Sony PD170s for professional jobs, I equally love the "set it and forget it" convenience of Cine Mode on the HV20, which I mainly use for family videos. Kudos to Canon for developing a tremendously great preset!

If you do want to shoot in 24p for the "film look", your best bet is to maintain 24p all the way through post and even DVD authoring. Converting to 30p or 60i through pulldown (telecine) defeats the purpose of shooting 24p in the first place.