FORMAT CONFUSION

[dalelpaq]

Can anyone help? I purchased a Canon HV30. It records in 1080i, 30p and 24p. It outputs over HDMI, firewire, component, and composite vid. I believe the full 1920X1080i is available only over HDMI. If I use firewire it downloads 1400+ or so (can't remember the exact number)X1080i.

This I know. I can experiment with 30p and 24p over firewire, but I suspect they will end up with lower (than 1920X1080) resolution as well and interlaced. Does anyone know, do I get genuine progressive only over HDMI (if at all)? If firewire comes out interlaced, can I deinterlace it in a way to get back the original progressive (as opposed to the interpolated version)?

Is there any certain way (by software) to know exactly what format a vid file is download in?

What is the least expensive way to capture HDMI to the PC?

Thanks, dale

[Bob]

Th HV30 has a 1920x1080 sensor, but, as far as I know, you can only get that resolution as a still shot. Video is HDV which is locked by the specification at 1440x1080 with a pixel aspect ratio of 1.33 which will give you a 16:9 frame aspect ratio. You'll get that for both the interlaced and progressive modes. You'll need to use the firewire port to capture progressive video. See this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDV

[Chuck Engels]

I do know that I use a 1920 x 1080 preset in Encore when I author the DVDs, even though the Premiere project is 1440 x 1080.
The DVDs come out full widescreen and look amazing, not sure why the difference between capture and final output.

[Ken Jarstad]

There is one other way, if you are so inclined. A company named 'Black Magic' (ugh) makes/sells the 'Intensity' and the 'Intensity Pro' PCI card which will accept input from your HDMI connector at full 1920 x 1080. It requires their add in software which supports major editing suites such as CS4 and so on. I doubt it supports Elements.

http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/

$250 and $350 respectively. Use Google Products to find it for less.

As Bob says, the HDV spec supports the HDTV standard but with 1/3 less horizontal pixels. According to many, many accounts it does so remarkably well. Better than the specs would suggest.

[jackfalbey]

The Canon HV forums (www.hv20.com) contain far more tips and explanations than you could ever want to know about the HV20 & HV30. I'm sure you could spend hours reading about all the different ways to get HD video out of your camera and into your PC...

[Bob]

Just a footnote to Ken's comment. Capturing directly to 1920x1080 via the hdmi port and "Black Magic" card is a tethered live recording bypassing the resampling and compression to HDV format. Once you actually write to tape, it is in HDV format. You can't capture 1920x1080 from the HDV tape.

[Ken Jarstad]

My HV20 plays back in 1080i from tape through the HDMI port, so it must be converting the recorded 1440 pixels back to 1920.

[Bob]

1080i is 1440x1080 interlaced (upper field first) with a pixel aspect ratio of 1.33 which displays a 16:9 frame the same as 1920x1080 progressive which has square pixels. If you are getting 1920x1080, a conversion is going on and it isn't standard 1080i. I'm not familiar with the software that comes with that card. Is it capturing as 1080p, 1080i, or something else?

[Ken Jarstad]

I don't have the Intensity card, Jack. I was presenting, just for information, what happens when I connect my HV20 to an HDTV via HDMI and play back a previous recorded tape segment. My HDTV reports 1080i on the input signal so the HV20 is most obviously converting the recorded 1440 horizontal pixels to 1920 for presentation.

Then, my little 15.4 inch TV is scaling it to 720p. The screen is 1280 x 800 so I'm not sure what the horizontal pixels end up being. Since the full height and width are being used the scaler must fudge things a bit.

[George Tyndall]

The Canon HV forums (http://www.hv20.com) contain far more tips and explanations than you could ever want to know about the HV20 & HV30. I'm sure you could spend hours reading about all the different ways to get HD video out of your camera and into your PC...

Hi jackfalbey,

Thanks for sharing that link, which is chock-full of good technical information about the HV30.

[George Tyndall]

My HV20 plays back in 1080i from tape through the HDMI port, so it must be converting the recorded 1440 pixels back to 1920.

Hi Ken,

Yes, according to the http://www.hv20.com/ forum that jackfalbey mentioned, the Canon sensor is widescreen 16:9 but, so that all the 1920x1080 data will fit onto MiniDV tapes, the camera compresses 1920x1080 to 1440x1080--then decompresses it when the output is via the HDMI port to a HD 1920x1080 monitor.

[George Tyndall]

Th HV30 has a 1920x1080 sensor, but, as far as I know, you can only get that resolution as a still shot.[/url]

Hi Bob,

Yes, I am getting 1920x1080 with my HV30 stills, but they are VERY grainy on my 52-inch monitor despite setting the ISO to 100. The HDV at 1440x1080 of the same subject, on the other hand, is BEAUTIFUL.

Any idea why??

[John 'twosheds' McDonald]

Hello George, have you tried different (lower and higher) ISO settings to see if that makes any difference?

[Bob]

George,

Video will generally appear less grainy than stills due to persistence of vision smoothing and averaging the random noise as the successive frames are viewed.

Don't expect the stills to be as good as those taken with a digital camera. Camcorders still shots in general will be grainer. This is largly because camcorders use much smaller sized sensors than digital cameras and smaller sensors are inherently noiser than larger ones. See http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/digital-camera-sensor-size.htm. The sensor in the the hv30 is approximately 1/3" (actually 1/2.7) the size of the smallest yellow rectangle on the comparison diagram on that page.

The grain/noise will also increase as gain increases. You can adjust the ISO but the hv30 does not have a gain control. The http://www.hv20.com site has discussions on techniques to lock the exposure to limit the gain if you want to play with that.

Sharpening will make the noise more noticable. You might want to play with the "low sharpening" setting in the Image Effects submenu to see if that makes a difference.

Also, don't forget, you can post process the shots in Photoshop Elements (or the equivalent) and run a noise removal filter.

[George Tyndall]

You might want to play with the "low sharpening" setting in the Image Effects submenu to see if that makes a difference.

Also, don't forget, you can post process the shots in Photoshop Elements (or the equivalent) and run a noise removal filter.

Thanks for that, Bob.

In fact, I did use the HV30's Image Effects submenu for Soft Skin which is, I believe, even softer than the Low Sharpening setting.

Because I do my slide shows in PSE rather than PE, your latter suggestion is very helpful. Thanks!