What's the story with no more MiniDV

[Maxine370]

I've seen around that many manufacturers are starting to move away from MiniDV format completely. I'm very disappointed since the miniDVD format is so hard to edit from, and the hard drive format will make it hard for me to do business.

I can't believe that the best thus far format is the one that will soon be obsolete.

Anyway does this mean if I want to make sure I have a great miniDV camcorder moving forward I need to get it now to make sure I have a new/high quality one before they become hard to find I should but it now?

How much time do I really have before they are no longer on the market?

I DON'T EVER WANT TO HAVE TO RESORT TO MINIDVD!!! What a pain to finalize, trouble downloading, trouble editing, just plain trouble (no offense to those who have and like them, but my experience has not been great)

[Steve Grisetti]

Where's Digital8, Ron?

I'm an old-school Digital8 fan, but I'm not quite sure that should go into the "other" category since, in essence, it's virtually the same as miniDV.

Great fun poll though!

[Maxine370]

Sorry Steve... That's my poll. I'll add the Digital 8. Wasn't aware that was still an option to buy (although I guess I asked what people are using, nit buying.

[Chuck Engels]

I entered 'Other' for VHS-C, I now have a MiniDV too but haven't used it much yet.

[Paul LS]

Where would HDV go? It is captured as MPEG2 transport stream to miniDV tape.

[rustysterling]

I have two mini-dv, one hard-drive and one s-vhs. I cast my vote for mini-dv because I really like the format. There's a huge discussion about this on the Adobe PrE forum. I'm not sure mini-dv will go away altogether but I think the other formats (mini-dvd, harddrive) are going to be dominant on the market. I think for ENG tape of some sort or another is still going to be used and demanded. Afterall, some news operations are still using betacams.

[Bobby]

I have never fully understood the problems in this whole thing. I remember back when I used Pinnacle Studio how bad it was, but it was better (relatively) when I switched from trying to edit MPEG to AVI. The point, I think, is that it is much more difficult to edit any format that requires extensive processing (i.e. keyframing, compression, etc.) to isolate a particular frame of video.

But, as a programmer, it would seem to me a very minor challenge to convert any format to an editable format (i.e. similar to DV-AVI) for the purpose of editing - not displaying directly on your home TV. Once converted, even though resulting in large files, you could edit to your heart's content and then re-convert if need be.

For example, the MainConcept MPEG plug-in that seems to work for a lot of people, although I have not tried it. But I understand that it is far from universal.

So, what is holding us back from getting a universal converter and keeping it updated? It would seem to me that Adobe, as a leader in this business, would make such a thing available either stand-alone or as a component of PE.

To say it another way, I would fully support the manufacturers of consumer level equipment to drive towards media that satisfies the immediate need of consumers. But I would expect the software vendors to run with that and work with all formats.

There are two different requirements here - the needs for small, portable cameras with (relatively) inexpensive media capable of a reasonable recording time with reasonable quality, and the need to then work with that.

What am I missing here?

[Maxine370]

My issue with the MIniDVD (MPEG) is this....


it's already much more compressed so we start with lower quality and then in order to edit it (without problems) you would need to covert it to AVI = quality loss, then I export my editied video again as a complete AVI = quality loss, then it gets burned back to DVD MPEG again = quality loss. Granted it's not much but it's there. Plus the whole reverse field dominance issue.

WIth miniDV I just capture onto my computer (in AVI format) edit and export. Some compression and quality loss but much less so than MPEG.

Plus, I've had issues with errors importing the files from the discs. In order to capture my video I had to play on my DVD player using my miniDV camcorder as the passthrough. Not Ideal way to import.

Anyway I'll stop venting now since I still own a MiniDV. My real question is if I want to continue using MiniDV and I want to have a great quality camcorder to carry me until the next format, should I go out and buy tomorrow or do I have some time until this type becomes impossible to buy.

[Bobby]

I am not sure about the quality loss. You generally lose quality when you compress, not the other way around. I would think a DV-AVI internal file made from an MPEG would be equivalent to the quality of the MPEG originally. Now, that is a separate issue - if the consumer market wants lower quality, well that is what will happen. My question was strictly algorithmic - not trying to judge the lack of brains of the consumer buying public.

And as far as quality loss on recompression to MPEG/VOB, well that is no worse than what we deal with today when writing videos to DVD from a DV-AVI source.

Reverse field dominance - that is another artificial pain in the neck. We made a big mistake when we went to interlaced video and it has been downhill from there. I wish the HD standards never had an 'i' to begin with. All because of primitive CRTs with phosphor latency problems.

[Ken Jarstad]

I still use my 10 year old Sony Hi8. If you don't do landscapes the picture quality is very good. I may soon have an oportunity to get a new camcorder and my current pick is the HDV Canon HV-20 for (I think) a little more than $1000. Record in hi-def MPEG and downconvert to DV for capturing. I hear these make wonderful standard-def pictures. There's a lot of life left in SDTV!

[John 'twosheds' McDonald]

It might not be a (classic 4.7Gb/DL) DVD based future we are looking at as a replacement for MiniDV. There are other contenders out there which are beginning to make some inroads in terms of increasing data capacity/reducing cost.

The FireStore product line is one way things might go, or the Panasonic P2 card route and the Sony flash card option (http://www.sonybiz.net/biz/view/ShowCon ... 5002588701). Then there is the Sony's Blu-Ray recording initiative (see the Sony F350 XDCAM).

I believe that MiniDV will likely be around for a while yet - it certainly still features strongly in the prosumer/professional market space.

It may be that (classic) DVD continues to encroach into the general consumer market but the optomist in me thinks there will always be other options for those who want to do something other than take a DVD out of their camera and play it on their TV.

[deasley]

This has been a very interesting discussion. I am new to video and need to buy a camcorder. I had been looking at the DVD camcorders but did not know they produce a lower quality recording than mini DV tape.

I will mainly be using it for putting instructional videos on my website and making training and sales DVDs to send to clients. I will be using “green screen” for some of the recordings. I know I need the ability to connect an external mic (probably wireless) and a remote control would be very useful. I value your opinions because you all have experience and I do not.

Should I look for a mini DV tape camcorder and forget about the DVD/Hard drive/memory card type camcorders? I do not mind spending money for quality (when you buy quality, you only cry once) but I would like to get the most for my money and not have something that will soon be obsolete. I would prefer to spend $400-$600 but if I have to spend $1,000 to get what I need, I would consider it. Should I look for 3 CCD and High Def camcorders to "future proof"?

Thank you all in advance for your opinions and advice.

[Chuck Engels]

Should I look for a mini DV tape camcorder and forget about the DVD/Hard drive/memory card type camcorders? Should I look for 3 CCD and High Def camcorders to "future proof"?

Yes, and Yes Definately MiniDV or even standard DV (but then you are talking about the $2500 plus range). 3CCD and Hi Def would set you up for awhile. Good low light quality is also important, I think the 3CCD will help with that also I know the overall color will be much better than a single CCD.

Steve has a great article on shopping for a camcorder, you should check it out http://videoinasnap.chuckengels.com/sou ... _12-05.htm

[Maxine370]

Sony has a combo camcorder both miniDV and HD... HDR-SR7 or SR5

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/<wbr%20target=_blank>INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_BrowseCatalog-Start?CategoryName=dcc_DICamcorders_HighDefinitionVideo&Dept=cameras

I'm eyeing this one myself but there's still nothing wrong with the one I have and is actaully still quite a good quality. I'll have to have one of my kids drop it so I can justify buying the new one.

[Paul LS]

Infact the SR7, SR5 are harddrive camcorders capturing in AVCHD format in high def and MPEG2 in standard definition not miniDV.
The AVCHD format is a highly compressed MPEG4 format, editing software is only just becoming available for this format.