They're here! More Muvipix.com Guides by Steve Grisetti!
The Muvipix.com Guides to Premiere & Photoshop Elements 2024
As well as The Muvipix.com Guide to CyberLink PowerDirector 21
Because there are stories to tell
muvipix.com

Frequency of scene changes

Video / Image editing, advanced techniques, computer settings, third party software, shortcuts, workarounds ... share your tips and tricks here.

Frequency of scene changes

Postby sadddletree » Sat Apr 16, 2016 10:36 am

Not sure where to put this, but looking for input from experienced video editors.

How often do you want to make a change of some sort to keep people's interest? Our video is pretty much someone talking and pointing to what we are talking about - not a whole lot of action. Our only options with how we have it filmed is to crop in and out a bit to make a scene change. How long will people used to today's TV/movies/videos watch before their attention drifts? Right now we are working to make a change every 20 to 30 seconds or so. Is this excessive? Or should it be more often?
Windows 10, Intel (R) Core, i7 - 6500 U CPU @ 2.50 GHz 2.6 GHz, 12 GB RAM
sadddletree
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
 
Posts: 243
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2016 9:18 pm

Re: Frequency of scene changes

Postby sidd finch » Sat Apr 16, 2016 11:24 am

The pacing your talking about has a lot of variables to consider. But ultimately they are how you want to tell your story. That in essence is a part of the "craft". There are guidelines of course but in the end it is how you tell your story.

First to consider is your target audience (think age group) The younger the audience the more they accept quicker cuts and a faster pacing. The older the audience the less they like it. Also what is your desired completed length?

One of the best ways (IMO) is to watch something that is similar on TV to what you are trying to do and watch it analytically for how it was crafted. Number of cuts, panning, scene change different angles etc. That will give you a good "template" from which to craft your opus.

One way I edit is I do my rough draft and then play it for someone who has not seen me put the video together. I try to watch their face to see how engaged they are. If I see them drift I know my pacing is a bit slow. If I am too fast I can sometimes see that they wanted to see more of what I was playing for them.

Steve is pretty much the master of storytelling here and I am sure he can had input. Best wishes.

Sidd
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it." ..... Ferris Bueller
User avatar
sidd finch
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 6542
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:20 pm
Location: Cyberspace

Re: Frequency of scene changes

Postby Steve Grisetti » Sat Apr 16, 2016 3:34 pm

I try to cut every 5-7 seconds in my videos. Shots gets stales pretty quickly -- especially if there's not a lot going on in them.

But, as Sidd says, your pacing is kind of determined by content.

Still, think of a local newscast. 50 years ago, you could just show someone sitting at a desk, reading the news. Now there are constant cutaways to B roll or other camera angles. Audiences have a very short attention span. Give them something to look at. As they say in film school, "They're called movies because they move."
HP Envy with 2.9/4.4 ghz i7-10700 and 16 gig of RAM running Windows 11 Pro
User avatar
Steve Grisetti
Super Moderator
Super Moderator
 
Posts: 14439
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 5:11 pm
Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin

Re: Frequency of scene changes

Postby sadddletree » Sun Apr 17, 2016 1:15 am

Thanks for the answers. Wow. Every 5 - 7 seconds, and I was thinking every 20 was looking a bit choppy. Obviously the age factor is playing into how I am seeing things, plus the fact that I have watched minimal TV for the last 25 plus years. Our video isn't just someone staring at the camera and talking. They are pointing out things and there is some movement, but not a lot. Good thing teens aren't our primary audience...

Thanks again for your input. This site has been invaluable for us.

And yes, we have bought another camera. A Canon Vixia HF R700. Our long video (over 4 1/2 hours so far and not finished yet) is done with the older camera. We are planning a shorter one which will be filmed with the new camera, so editing will have more options. If we knew a year ago what we know now...
Windows 10, Intel (R) Core, i7 - 6500 U CPU @ 2.50 GHz 2.6 GHz, 12 GB RAM
sadddletree
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
 
Posts: 243
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2016 9:18 pm

Re: Frequency of scene changes

Postby Chris B » Sun Apr 17, 2016 6:11 am

The "attention span" thing is interesting. If you look at a music video (e.g. the current billboard number 2 - "7 years") then the video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHCob76kigA) has around 30 cuts in the first minute. The longest clip without a cut is around 6 seconds meaning that some clips significantly less than a second long. But - you can contrast this with the Stampy (7,284,601 subscribers - 4,958,561,529 views https://www.youtube.com/user/stampylonghead ) minecraft videos on youtube - also aimed very much at a youth market - which are often 20 minutes without a single cut. It does seem it's all about the particular audience you have.
Intel Core i7 8700 - 32GB DDR4 - 500GB Evo 970 SSD - 3+2 TB HDD - GTX 1080- MSI Z370 Pro - Win10 64 bit - Cannon HV30 (PAL) - Sony A6000 - GoPro 3 Black
User avatar
Chris B
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 819
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:04 pm
Location: UK

Re: Frequency of scene changes

Postby sidd finch » Sun Apr 17, 2016 10:54 am

Sometimes it also helps to have some text on the screen as a short factoid to help tell the story. This can serve the purpose of instead of doing a scene change and lets the viewer read some additional information that is relevant to your video. Also as Steve mentioned having some B-roll to play while the speaker is talking is also an added plus.

Sidd
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it." ..... Ferris Bueller
User avatar
sidd finch
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 6542
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:20 pm
Location: Cyberspace

Re: Frequency of scene changes

Postby Peru » Sun Apr 17, 2016 1:27 pm

Pan and zoom also helps create the illusion of change.
User avatar
Peru
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 3687
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 12:34 pm
Location: Peru, NY, USA

Re: Frequency of scene changes

Postby sadddletree » Sun Apr 17, 2016 3:51 pm

Thanks for the input!
Windows 10, Intel (R) Core, i7 - 6500 U CPU @ 2.50 GHz 2.6 GHz, 12 GB RAM
sadddletree
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
 
Posts: 243
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2016 9:18 pm

Re: Frequency of scene changes

Postby John 'twosheds' McDonald » Mon Apr 18, 2016 1:40 am

Another trick from TV that might also help if the material is scripted rather than impromptu.

Record the scene from position A, then re-record the same scene from position B.

Merge the two scene sequences into one during the editing process.

It now looks like more than one camera was used and this will allow you to cut a long scene into "segments" without losing continuity.
AMD Ryzen 3900x 12C/24T, ASUS x570 mobo, Arctic Liquid Freezer ll 280, Win11 64 bit, 64GB RAM, Radeon RX 570 graphics, Samsung 500GB NVMe 980 PRO (C:), Samsung 970 Evo SSD (D:), Dell U2717D Monitor, Synology DS412+ 8TB NAS, Adobe CS6.
User avatar
John 'twosheds' McDonald
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 4236
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 11:57 am
Location: Cheshire, UK

Re: Frequency of scene changes

Postby sadddletree » Mon Apr 18, 2016 11:38 pm

Something to consider for future filming for sure.
Windows 10, Intel (R) Core, i7 - 6500 U CPU @ 2.50 GHz 2.6 GHz, 12 GB RAM
sadddletree
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
 
Posts: 243
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2016 9:18 pm

Re: Frequency of scene changes

Postby Bob » Tue Apr 19, 2016 12:40 am

Yeah, it's best to plan it out in advance if possible. Your primary footage is your a-roll and the cutaways and secondary footage is your b-roll. Shoot more b-roll than you think you need. It's easier to not use something than to go back and reshoot later.

As for pacing, "talking head " instructional videos with a single presenter can get away with longer cuts, but don't make every segment long. I try to stay between 5 and 20 seconds with the average being about 10 seconds. Content will dictate.

Don't forget, you can use still photos as b-roll too.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ] Image
User avatar
Bob
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 5925
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 4:49 am
Location: Southern California, USA


Return to Tips and Tricks 


Similar topics


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests