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Is HDV obsolete?

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Is HDV obsolete?

Postby Ted Pietrzyk » Mon Dec 14, 2015 11:47 am

Hello!

I been using HDV camcorder and PE from version 2 to 9 . In the mind time Adobe released version 10 to 14 but none of them supports i-1394 which is necessary to capture video from HDV camcorder.
My computer , which is Dell XPS 420 start wearing down and my be time to get upgrade , but new computers ( Windows 10 ) not supporting I-1394.
Is it also time to look for different camcorder?
What set up will be suitable if I want to go to edit and authorize in 4K UHD format?
Please give me some advise.

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Re: Is HDV obsolete?

Postby Steve Grisetti » Mon Dec 14, 2015 12:26 pm

Probably. Although I still cling to my old miniDV camcorders the way Charles Foster Kane clung to his (spoiler alert) sled. I rarely use them, but I love them just the same.

Not only is tape-based video considered sort of obsolete, but it's getting harder and harder to find an off-the-shelf computer with a FireWire connection.

The good news is that the jump to AVCHD can be pretty painless. You can pick up a refurb Canon Vixia AVCHD for under $150 and a brand new one for a little more than $200. And, as with all technology, even the bottom-of-the-line units can do what top-of-the-line consumer units used to only dream of.

Transferring video from camcorder to computer is much faster and easier than capturing tape, and the results are terrific.

I'd highly recommend you pick up a bottom-of-the-line Canon Vixia AVCHD on eBay and play with it for a few weeks. I think you'll find the transition to memory-based camcorders an easy one.
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Re: Is HDV obsolete?

Postby sidd finch » Mon Dec 14, 2015 1:20 pm

HDV is quickly becoming obsolete. Not only has the technology greatly improved but the ability to source HDV tapes and Firewire connections is greatly reduced. But the cost of moving to a 4K system is still pretty expensive. There are a few considerations when moving to 4K.

You will need a pretty robust computer to be able to process the 4K files. 4K is pretty processor intense. You will also need to invest in a 4K monitor which are also pretty expensive when compared to normal monitors. Lastly you will need to think through your storage. Since everything is stored on an SD card you will need to transfer that to a hard drive or a SSD drive for storage.

4K is really cool just research your options before you jump in.

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Re: Is HDV obsolete?

Postby John 'twosheds' McDonald » Tue Dec 15, 2015 1:56 am

I have no issues at all with moving away from from tape based camcorders but I am sorry to throw cold water on the issue of 4k...

My take is that HDV is still mainstream and will remain so for quite a while yet and that video distribution will remain, in the short term, DVD based.

Yes, I know that video streaming is rapidly eating into the DVD media market space but even so all present streaming is either SD or HD. I am not aware of any 4k streaming. That could be because infrastructure bandwidth to support 4k doesn't exist yet.

Also just how may folks do you know that have bought 4k TVs? They are very likely to be obsolete before 4k is established as 8k is already on the horizon. Will 4k be a dead end in the consumer market space just like 3D became?

IMHO, whilst ther is no universally available 4k content then HD will continue to be mainstream.

Most of the folk that I create videos for still ask for SD DVD output. I always provide them with a BD DVD as well though I suspect that a large number of those BD discs remain unused. For now I'm sticking with HD and HD streaming.

As an aside, look how badly BluRay impacted the SD DVD market. By far the vast majority of my friends and acquaintances still use standard definition DVDs and watch them on their HDV TVs. Proportionally, few of them have BluRay players. I have no doubt that 4k will eventually arrive but whether it ever becomes mainstream before being overtaken by 8k who knows.
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Re: Is HDV obsolete?

Postby GerryB » Tue Dec 15, 2015 5:51 am

Not so long ago I cam across a story about the move to non-tape use in the movement of programmes between studios, broadcasters and transmission. This led to the https://www.digitalproductionpartnership.co.uk/what-we-do/guides-reports/ setup here in the UK.

A bit above our normal requirements but how long will it be before tape & DVD are left to one side in the semi-pro system?

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Re: Is HDV obsolete?

Postby sidd finch » Tue Dec 15, 2015 7:43 am

I am not aware of any 4k streaming


Youtube, Vimeo, Amazon, Netflix, Direc TV, and Comcast with a Samsung TV are all streaming in 4k. Roku is also making a 4k box.

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Re: Is HDV obsolete?

Postby John 'twosheds' McDonald » Tue Dec 15, 2015 8:36 am

I hadn't realised that Sidd.

What sort of bandwidth is needed to view those streams? Here in Sicily on a good day I get 8-9 Mbps. In the UK 16Mbps.
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Re: Is HDV obsolete?

Postby Kent Frost » Tue Dec 15, 2015 12:07 pm

Another thing about tape-based digital video is that it was very unstable. In other words, you were many, many times more likely to get picture glitchy blockiness because that technology (as well as hard drive-based video camcorders) are/were very sensitive to motion. A bit too much motion and your picture starts to glitch and wobble. I recall that being one of the biggest selling points about solid state memory (memory cards, built-in flash memory, etc). You could do almost anything to it and as long as the camera survives so does your footage, and it's clean, solid, and glitch-free when played back.
Another point is that as they age, your tapes will get glitchier and glitchier. I've also noticed many times that if the tapes are not played back in the same device that was used to record, glitchiness abounds then as well.
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Re: Is HDV obsolete?

Postby Kent Frost » Tue Dec 15, 2015 12:10 pm

John 'twosheds' McDonald wrote:I hadn't realised that Sidd.

What sort of bandwidth is needed to view those streams? Here in Sicily on a good day I get 8-9 Mbps. In the UK 16Mbps.


I've personally noticed that bandwidth isn't quite as important if you give the video time to buffer. However, if your machine is not up to par for 4K playback, your internet connection may not even matter. I can't playback 4K on my machine.
However, I also don't have a 4K monitor (only 1080p), so I don't generally choose that mode because I won't benefit from it.
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Re: Is HDV obsolete?

Postby Bob » Tue Dec 15, 2015 3:53 pm

Yes, HDV is obsolete. It's still serviceable for now, but technology has moved on. You won't be seeing new HDV camcorder models. Firewire (IEEE-1394) is also becoming obsolete (if it isn't already). Even Apple, who developed the technology, has moved on. You can buy Firewire cards to install in desktop PCs, but Windows 10 has had issues with the drivers -- especially for the cards using the VIA chipset.

4K UHD is becoming increasingly common. Prices for the televisions have been coming down rapidly and many cameras can already record in 4K UHD. Even my old Galaxy S5 phone can record 4K UHD video. I think we are going to be seeing a lot of 4K UHD capable cameras available soon. What hasn't been mentioned is that even if you don't intend to export to 4K UHD resolution, there are advantages to shooting in 4K. Assuming you will be outputting to 1080 or less resolution, you can crop 4K video, stabilize, or pan and scan. And, many find down sampling from UHD to HD hides some of the digital artifacts and can even appear sharper than footage shot in native HD.

UHD does require a lot of compute power though. You'll want at least a fast quad core processor and lots of ram.
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Re: Is HDV obsolete?

Postby sidd finch » Thu Dec 17, 2015 12:08 pm

One thing I am considering to "salvage" my HDV recorder is to bypass the Tape and connect the HDMI to a SSD. The HDMI port will record uncompressed video to the SSD drive. Right now the SSD recorders are a bit pricey but I am still on the hunt.

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Re: Is HDV obsolete?

Postby Gerlinde » Thu Dec 17, 2015 2:15 pm

Wow, that sounds interesting Sidd, I had no idea that's possible. I checked at Amazon, they have a used one for $230. http://www.amazon.com/Blackmagic-Design ... B00701AN5Y
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Re: Is HDV obsolete?

Postby sidd finch » Sat Dec 19, 2015 10:27 am

It Looks like Blackmagic makes an UltraStudio Mini Recorder for $138 USD:

The Mini Recorder doesn't actually record! It converts the SDI/HDMI video and audio feed from your video source and makes it available via Thunderbolt to your Mac or PC to record in your video application (or the Blackmagic Design Media Express application). Don't know of anything that can do what you are after.


http://www.coremicro.com/blackmagic-des ... fgodY4QCBQ

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