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Current Thought On Removing Overscan Lines?

Specific to Premiere Elements Version 11.

Current Thought On Removing Overscan Lines?

Postby HSA » Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:47 am

A question from “yesteryear”: Overscan lines.

From what I observe, ten years ago there were lots of questions about how to get rid of, or how to deal with, “those fuzzy lines at the bottom of the screen” in Premier Elements after capturing from VHS tapes, which more knowledgeable individuals explained as “overscan”.

I just captured from VHS tape FOR THE FIRST TIME, using the WinDV utility; all went well. The WinDV onscreen utility shows the overscan lines at the bottom, so I know I’m going to see them when I load the file into my Premier Elements 11.

Practicing in Premier Elements 11, I learned how to oversize the picture and center it. I recognize that that could be the way to eliminate the overscan lines. Seeking other possible solutions, I researched several old Muvipix Community Forum discussions on the very subject (though they got there ten years before).

As expected, someone mentioned that overscan can be cut out by oversizing the whole picture just enough that it pushes the overscan off screen. Another person stated that one can crop the overscan off the bottom of the picture (I’m not sure how to this, but could find out).

But then I read Chuck Engles’ reply: “[T]hat nearly all TVs won't show the overscan because they already crop the edges of the picture. Overscan usually is only a problem on computer monitors, which show all of the picture.”

Ok, it’s now ten years later and everyone has an HD TV (with a THIN BEZEL), and no one but me is still capturing from old VHS tapes (they’ve already done it). How would you suggest that I handle the overscan section at the bottom of my capture from VHS tape?

Thank you,

Howard
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Re: Current Thought On Removing Overscan Lines?

Postby Peru » Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:45 pm

Just increase the scale a bit. The image is already at VHS quality and about a 2%-5% increase in its size won't make that much difference.
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Re: Current Thought On Removing Overscan Lines?

Postby Bob » Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:42 pm

I agree with Peru. Those old analog sets always cut off material and content was created with that in mind. You won't lose any significant content.

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Re: Current Thought On Removing Overscan Lines?

Postby HSA » Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:00 pm

Thank you, Peru and Bob.

Peru anticipated an underlying concern that I had.

In my ongoing learning how to use Premier Elements, and practicing from an Adobe lesson book and Steve’s book, when I oversized a test video segment, I thought that there was a bit of softening in the adjusted image. Based on what Peru wrote (above) now I’m sure if it. However, your other point: this is VHS resolution anyway; it won’t make a discernible difference, is a helpful answer and the approach I’ll follow.

Thank you both,

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Re: Current Thought On Removing Overscan Lines?

Postby Chris B » Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:33 pm

You might find that your HDTV does scale the video beyond the edge rather than doing a dot for dot representation. Worth a test.

As a different approach I would have thought scaling something by a small amount may do nasty/interesting things because the original is interlaced and low resolution - how about simply masking the edge of the frame with a black border? Should only be a few pixels in size to remove the fuzz.
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Re: Current Thought On Removing Overscan Lines?

Postby HSA » Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:42 pm

Chris B wrote: . . . I would have thought scaling something by a small amount may do nasty/interesting things because the original is interlaced and low resolution - how about simply masking the edge of the frame with a black border? Should only be a few pixels in size to remove the fuzz.


Chris, thank you for your suggestion.

Can you further suggest how one might go about "masking the edge of the frame with a black border" in Premier Elements? I have two learning references: Adobe lesson book (with sample video practice lessons) and Steve's book. I don't recall reading about "masking" in Premier Elements (though in Photoshop CS it's a common tool).

Thank you,

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Re: Current Thought On Removing Overscan Lines?

Postby Chris B » Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:11 pm

My Premier elements is very old however - if it's still the same you could apply a "clip" effect to take a small section off the top/bottom of the video. I'd have a play around and see which looks and feels the best with your source footage.
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Re: Current Thought On Removing Overscan Lines?

Postby Bob » Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:15 pm

An alternate way to do that is to use a photo editor such as Photoshop Elements to make a black matte image the same size as the video frame but with the center cut out for the video to show through. Save it as a native PSD or a PNG with transparency and place it on a video track in the timeline above the rest of the other layers you used. Drag the length out to cover the entire timeline.

Another way is to use the Title creation tools to make a border. Create a new title and delete the default text (you won't be using text). In the Title creation window select the rectangular object tool and draw a rectangle in the title area where you want the black border to be. You can adjust the size and position if needed. Use the color tool to change the color of the rectangle to black. You can add additional rectangles if you want to cover other edges. Place the title on the timeline and drag the length to cover the timeline.

The Crop and Clip effects can be used to remove or hide an edge, but these effects only affect the clip you apply them to.
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Re: Current Thought On Removing Overscan Lines?

Postby Peru » Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:35 pm

Something that I've done in the past is to create a file a bit larger than the timeline pixel size in Photoshop Elements and place a patterned image on it. Then create a transparent rectangle in the center sized smaller than your video size. Save as a PSD file.

Put the PSD file on video track 2 and the video on video track 1 so that the video is seen framed by the PSD. Reduce the scale so that the whole video (less the overscan lines) shows in the transparent rectangle. Reducing the scale will help make the video look a bit more clear when it is upscaled on the widescreen TV. It sometimes looks better if you apply a slight blur to the PSD on video track 2 .

You can find many free backgrounds online at sites like this one:
https://www.psdgraphics.com/?s=brown+texture
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Re: Current Thought On Removing Overscan Lines?

Postby sidd finch » Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:09 pm

as long as you are at it I would suggest that you add 2-5% sharpen on the video clip. VHS footage always looks a bit fuzzy with the TV's and computer monitors. I add about 2% sharpness and it helps make the video look a bit better.

It also goes without saying that you might try doing a bit of automatic color correcting to help the image.

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Re: Current Thought On Removing Overscan Lines?

Postby HSA » Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:23 pm

Bob wrote:An alternate way to do that is to use a photo editor such as Photoshop Elements to make a black matte image the same size as the video frame but with the center cut out for the video to show through. Save it as a native PSD or a PNG with transparency and place it on a video track in the timeline above the rest of the other layers you used. Drag the length out to cover the entire timeline. . . .

_________________________________

Bob, do I correctly understand your suggestion on how would one go about making and applying such a frame to cover the overscan lines, to wit:

My Premier Elements project is SD 720x480. I am a mid-level user of the FULL version of Photoshop. In Photoshop I might do the following:

Create a new document, size 720x480, fill black, (maybe 1% noise).

Create a second document of however many pixels smaller than the above that would just NOT cover the overscan lines and be equal in width on all four sides relative to the first document. This second, smaller, document might be sized as, say, 710x470 pixels.

Fill this smaller document with some highly contrasting color, say green.

Place the smaller (green) document exactly inside the larger document, equal sides all along.

Flatten the image, which is now mostly green with a black boarder.

“Select” all green and DELETE it, thereby leaving only the black border (whose size will frame the Premier Elements project all around and just hiding the overscan lines).

Save as a Photoshop “PSD” file. Load this PSD as a project asset in my Premier Elements project.

Now What? Do I drag this PSD to the Video 2 Track?

If so, then how do I get the new black “frame” to cover all (seven) clips in my project? Do I merely "pull" the pop-up side handles so that the black border on Video Track 2 extends from the beginning of the timeline to the end?

Am I in the ballpark of understanding here? Is there a better way?

Thank you,

Howard
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Re: Current Thought On Removing Overscan Lines?

Postby Peru » Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:56 pm

HSA wrote:Now What? Do I drag this PSD to the Video 2 Track?
Do I merely "pull" the pop-up side handles so that the black border on Video Track 2 extends from the beginning of the timeline to the end?

Yes.
Yes.
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Re: Current Thought On Removing Overscan Lines?

Postby HSA » Sun Mar 31, 2019 1:15 pm

Peru wrote:
HSA wrote:Now What? Do I drag this PSD to the Video 2 Track?
Do I merely "pull" the pop-up side handles so that the black border on Video Track 2 extends from the beginning of the timeline to the end?

Yes.
Yes.


A very thorough answer, indeed!

Thank you,

Howard
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Re: Current Thought On Removing Overscan Lines?

Postby Bob » Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:32 pm

Am I in the ballpark of understanding here? Is there a better way?


Close, You're in the ballpark, but in the cheap seats with a structural column blocking your view of home plate. Now let's get you into the good seats.

I'm going to try to give generic instructions that apply to most versions, but it would help to know which specific version of Photoshop you are using. I subscribe to the Adobe CC Photography plan and use the most current version.

Both wide screen and full frame standard definition video are 720x480 pixels -- the difference between them is the pixel aspect ratio used. Full frame video uses a 0.91 pixel aspect ratio while wide screen uses a 1.21 pixel aspect ratio. Photoshop has a built-in preset for both types of document in the film and video section of the new document dialog. Select the one that matches your video. Select the black background color. Guide lines at the safe title and safe action boundaries will probably be included, but you can ignore them.

Next, you will need to convert the background layer to a normal layer. In recent versions of Photoshop CC, you can simply click on the lock icon on the layer in the layers palette. Older versions, you will double click on the layer in the layers palette then click OK instead. The layer will now be named "layer 0".

You can use the rectangular marquee selection tool to freehand a selection box where you want to cut out a hole in the black layer. Or, you can be a little more precise using the contract selection command. To use contract selection, you must first make a selection. If you press and hold the ctrl key and click on the image thumbnail in the layer in the layers palette, the entire image will be selected. Now, from the main menu, Select>Modify>Contract and in the contract selection dialog enter the number of pixels you want the black border to be and, since the initial selection was at the boundaries of the document, check the box next to Apply Effect at Canvas Bounds. You will now have a selection the specified number of pixels in from the edge. Now press the "del" key to delete the black pixels within the selection. You should see a black border with a checkerboard square pattern that denotes transparency inside. You are essentially done. DON'T flatten the image, that will fill the transparent areas with the default background color. You don't want that to happen. Save the document as a PSD file to retain the transparency. You can now import the photo into your project.
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Re: Current Thought On Removing Overscan Lines?

Postby Peru » Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:37 pm

Bob wrote: DON'T flatten the image, that will fill the transparent areas with the default background color.


I should have read HSA's post more closely. I missed that he was flattening it. #-o
Great explanation (as usual), Bob.
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