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Theory: Trimming vs. Split and Delete?

Specific to Premiere Elements Version 11.

Theory: Trimming vs. Split and Delete?

Postby HSA » Wed Feb 27, 2019 6:55 pm

Theory: Trimming vs. Split and Delete?

I’m using Premier Elements 11 and Windows 7 (but my question may be applicable universally).

Both Steve’s and Adobe’s books briefly note that when using the TRIM tool on the timeline, for example as to shorten a clip so that it ends at a particular frame, no material is being deleted from the original file in the hard drive, but Premier Elements and the timeline know what to show.

Another way to the desired result, is to (1) SPLIT the clip at a point then highlight the balance of the clip (i.e., to the right of the new split and continuing to the end of the clip), then (2) DELETE the unwanted portion of the clip (i.e., to the right of the new split and continuing to the end of the clip).

Question: Does the SPLIT/DELETE method actually remove that segment from the hard drive, or, like the TRIM tool, does it merely get rid of the deleted portion of the clip from the visible timeline, but retain the file on the hard drive in tact?

The Underlying Question: With respect to either method, but particularly, one might think, with respect to the use of the TRIM tool, does that mean that long after the TRIM was executed, one can return to that spot in the sequence of clips on the timeline and, beginning at the current end of the clip, extend that clip to where and how it was originally?

And if the answer is yes, can one also return to the spot of the SPLIT and DELETED clip segment and bring those frames back?

Another Interesting Question: And lastly, when one saves the finished project as a Premier Elements “.PREL” file (before exporting it to the desired format for play), what is one saving? Is it a file containing the entire original underlying project elements, but adjusted for what one did in Premier Elements, or is it just the much shorter file of/for finished product?

As a new user still learning, my project began with a downloaded one hour movie from which I wanted only ten (well edited) minutes. My initial two steps were to delete the final 45 minutes of the movie using the SPLIT-clip then DELETE method, and a minute or so in the middle of the remaining clip using the SPLIT-clip then DELETE method. That being so, does my Premier Elements “.PREL” file still hold those unwanted minutes hidden away? One wouldn’t think so. But . . .

Thanks to anyone who would care to answer questions of underlying theory (perhaps a bit more time-consuming than a “how to do it” question).

Howard
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Re: Theory: Trimming vs. Split and Delete?

Postby Steve Grisetti » Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:07 pm

That's correct, Howard. With non-linear editing (which is what all computer-based editing is) no change is ever made to the original media files. You can re-open a project at any time and recover any segments you removed from a clip on your timeline.

A .prel is a Premiere Elements project file. It's a relatively small file because it contains links to your media files (not the files themselves) as well as a record of your edit decisions and effects.
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Re: Theory: Trimming vs. Split and Delete?

Postby Peru » Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:23 pm

Just a reminder:

Always keep your original media (video and stills) that is used in your project. As Steve said, the project file is only a data file that determines how the media will be used.

I know that I have repeated what Steve has written here, but I felt it important enough to say it again, as I have seen many threads on many forums where those posting have only saved the project file and not the media files.

Also, make sure you have the media and project files backed up (see Schofield's Second Law https://www.zdnet.com/article/follow-sc ... disasters/).
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Re: Theory: Trimming vs. Split and Delete?

Postby HSA » Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:41 pm

Steve Grisetti wrote:That's correct, Howard. With non-linear editing (which is what all computer-based editing is) no change is ever made to the original media files. You can re-open a project at any time and recover any segments you removed from a clip on your timeline.

A .prel is a Premiere Elements project file. It's a relatively small file because it contains links to your media files (not the files themselves) as well as a record of your edit decisions and effects.



Steve, quite interesting ---

I originally downloaded a one-hour (public domain) movie and want only ten minutes of it ---- subsequently further edited including inserting a few photos (jpegs).

Assume my Premier Elements project is now complete ---- just how I want it. I no longer have reason to keep the "project assets", that of course being the original one-hour movie and the photos (jpegs).

Assuming I want to keep my project's ".PREL" file (for future use or whatever). Must I forever retain the originally downloaded movie file and the jpegs so that the project file (".PREL") will be able to "pull" from them? (And then keep them in the original Windows Directory/Folder so that if needed in the future Premier Elements knows where to find them?)

Thank you,

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Re: Theory: Trimming vs. Split and Delete?

Postby HSA » Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:23 pm

Thank you both.

I just found an old thread between a subscriber and Peru. It contains a link that explains the issue, including Archiving and Copying.

I nonetheless have the following inquiry:

This, my first project, began with a downloaded a 1.5-hour movie (public domain) of 2.2 Gigs in size. I immediately SPLIT and DELETED from the Premier Elements timeline all but the first 15 minutes or so of the movie, and will never need that latter 1.24 hours of material deleted from the timeline. That which was deleted from the Premier Elements timeline is about 2 Gigs of the 2.2 Gig original download!

Of course I'd like to delete permanently the latter 1.24 hours (2 Gigs) of material FROM THE HARD DRIVE.

As I am now understanding the matter, however, it seems that I must retain the full 2.2 Gig downloaded movie, even though the latter 1.24 hours (2 Gigs) will never be needed.

Is that correct?

Thank you,

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Re: Theory: Trimming vs. Split and Delete?

Postby Steve Grisetti » Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:48 am

If you know for sure you'll never need to recover what you've cut from your movie, there's no reason to keep the original file, Howard.
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Re: Theory: Trimming vs. Split and Delete?

Postby HSA » Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:29 am

Thank you.

In another thread, on a different and topic, Steve mentioned to someone that he might split his project and save each half of the split as different projects (perhaps MPEG-2s, I don’t recall), thereafter using each separate MPEG-2 as the foundation asset of a new project.

So if one downloaded a 1.5-hour, 2.2 gig, movie and needed only the first fifteen minutes ---- and no more ---- could one start with the original 1.5-hour movie on the Premier Elements timeline, SPLIT/DELETE everything after the first 15 minutes, save the remaining 15-minutes, EXPORT it as a finished product (say, an MPEG-2), then import that MPEG-2 as the foundation project file of a new project? The advantage: One would be working on, and permanently saving, what may be a 0.2 gig underlying file rather than a 2.2 gig file?

Even if possible, would there be an argument against such a procedure since the “new”, 0.2 gig working file would then be a second-generation MPEG-2 file, possibly degraded relative to the original.

While second-generation copies of analog material (such as tape) are usually well degraded and inferior to the original copy, I do not know if a copy of the digital MPEG-2 in our example would be inferior to the original.

Or is the whole matter not worth the trouble; just keep the original 2.2 gig MPEG-2 movie file, and move on?

Thank you,

Howard
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Re: Theory: Trimming vs. Split and Delete?

Postby Steve Grisetti » Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:07 pm

You can certainly do that, Howard.

I'm just not sure and MPEG would be the best output to use. AVCHD is a much more advanced codec. Also, with an AVC video (including an MP4) you can save your video with progressive frames rather than interlaced, which makes for a cleaner look.
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Re: Theory: Trimming vs. Split and Delete?

Postby HSA » Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:25 pm

Steve Grisetti wrote:You can certainly do that, Howard.

I'm just not sure and MPEG would be the best output to use. AVCHD is a much more advanced codec. Also, with an AVC video (including an MP4) you can save your video with progressive frames rather than interlaced, which makes for a cleaner look.

___________________________________________________

Steve, having not yet "outputted" anything (I've not yet gotten to that chapter in your book), may I assume that Premier Elements 11 will allow for the more advanced output codec you suggest?

Also, once I complete the present "learning/experimental" project, the source material of my "real" projects will be 1980s VHS tapes. May I assume that your above recommendation would still apply?

Thanks,

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Re: Theory: Trimming vs. Split and Delete?

Postby Bob » Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:10 pm

Howard,

As for cutting down that 2.2gb file and saving only what you used, take another look at the Project Archiver (which is located under the "File" menu item). It sounds, to me, like the Archive Project option will do what you want to do.

The Project Archiver has two options: Archive Project and Copy Project. Both options are similar in that they create a new folder in a location that you specify and place the project file and the media source files there and the project file will be modified to reference the new file location rather than the original one. The difference between the two options is that Copy Project copies all the source files in the project to the folder whereas Archive Project copies only the source files you actually use on the timeline and only the portions you used.

Archive Project is generally used when you want to keep a backup of the finished project but don't intend to do further editing. Copy Project, because it saves all the source media, can be used to create a backup project that can be edited or recut later. It can also be used before the project is finished for the purpose of moving the project and its media from one location to another or even to a different computer altogether.
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Re: Theory: Trimming vs. Split and Delete?

Postby HSA » Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:23 pm

Bob, thank you.

Yes, in my research, last evening I did read about Archiving and Copying. But being a beginning user, I would say that I did not fully appreciate all that was being described. Now, what you described seems perfect for my needs.

Interesting, also last evening, as a test, I went to my Windows "Downloads" folder, which is where I am holding the downloaded movie file on which I have been working and learning in Premier Elements, and changed one letter in the name that I originally gave to that downloaded movie file. I then opened Premier Elements and loaded my one and only "Existing Project". Inside Premier Elements, all of my edits appeared on the timeline but the information with respect to the downloaded movie was not there! And THAT'S how I learned about Premier Elements always pulling from the original project assets file(s). Later confirmed by Steve.

A separate, but related, matter learned is to think carefully about the name one gives to his project files, and where (what folder) they are placed.

Thanks again,

Howard
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