How low can you go?

[AVITRY]

I have a video conversion that, when put on the timeline shows 3hrs 20mins. The bitrate calculator figures it at 3000 kb/s compression for a DVD5. About too big for 1 DVD and almost not big enough to warrant 2 DVDs.

How low have you guys gone without very noticable quality loss? The video is off a pool match. Most of the screen is stationary for the most part with the exception of the players walking around the table and of course the balls rolling on the table. Quality is an issue but so is convenience of a single DVD.

Never having gone down to 3k, I thought I'd ask rather than wasting the time of encoding an burning if you all think it's way too far to go.

thanks,
joe

[Steve Grisetti]

It's almost got to be your call, George, if it's acceptable or not. (It would probably be fine on a dual-layer DVD, if you have a DL burner that supports it.)

You're talking about 1/3 the bitrate of a high-quality DVD -- but that still might be acceptable. I'd give it a try and see what I thought.

If you prepare the files to a folder on your hard drive, it won't even cost you anything but time. You could open up the original video and the final DVD side-by-side on your computer and see if the quality loss is an issue.

[RJ Johnston]

Joe, you can go as low as 1.5 in Premiere Elements. Try Variable Bit Rate 2-Pass: Minimum 1.5, Target 2.0, Maximum 3.0.

[John 'twosheds' McDonald]

Try it on a re-writable DVD so that you can see for yourself without creating a potential coaster. .

[AVITRY]

Thanks guys. I suppose I was assuming there was a more definite threshold that one should not cross, and being a relative neophyte, I also assumed it was a more black and white decision.

I'm not so concerned with an extra coaster or two, it was more about menuing and setting up the two separate DVDs since they go to a company who sells them.

Since this threshold is more a hit or miss number (probably more reliant on movement in the video) I think I'll just take a 10 minute chunk out of the timeline and burn it for play back on a TV.

I'll let you all know.

thanks!
joe

[Chuck Engels]

Joe, why not just use a dual layer disc? They aren't that expensive anymore and you can burn at maximum quality that way.

[AVITRY]

Joe, why not just use a dual layer disc? They aren't that expensive anymore and you can burn at maximum quality that way.

Chuck these aren't for me. The company wants to use standard DVDs. 99% of all the conversions fit on one DVD, this one is a tad boarder line and in those cases they want 2 DVDs. I was just curious if 3k has been used by you all, and if it seems acceptable or if it is so far under what you are all familiar stretching it to that it just won't work.

[Chuck Engels]

I haven't gone below 5 myself. I have friends that put 2 - 2.5 hours on a DVD without problems but over that on a single layer will start to show quality loss. Considering these are probably not really great quality to begin with I would think you will definitely notice. Worth doing a test at 3k with a few minutes just to see how it looks though.

[AVITRY]

Joe, you can go as low as 1.5 in Premiere Elements. Try Variable Bit Rate 2-Pass: Minimum 1.5, Target 2.0, Maximum 3.0.

Thanks Robert I tried both your settings and a flat CBR of 3.0 Both came out just fine!

[RJ Johnston]

Thanks Robert I tried both your settings and a flat CBR of 3.0 Both came out just fine!

Joe, that's good to hear. I was wondering if that was going to work for you.

[AVITRY]

In all honesty, I'm still foggy on the meanings of VBR settings vs the CBR . With the settings as you suggested, it did come out every bit as good as the CBR but generically speaking, I would have assumed that minimum, target, and maximum would mean the following ...

1. Minimum = never go lower than this number as quality will surely suffer even in frames with very little movement.

2. Target = This is the value I want the compression to equal over the span of the video to be compressed. (so in my case I thought it would have been 3000)

3. Maximum = when motion is detected more than average give those segments as much bit rate as possible while still maintaining the "Target" overall bitrate so the resulting mpeg will fit within the parameters of the DVD size vs CBR compression recommendations from a bitrate calculator.

So the number value for maximum ( in my mind) would always have to be higher than the needed overall average of 3000 that I assumed would be equal to the "target" we know will fit on a DVD5 from the calculator's suggestion using CBR.

Am I interpreting the settings all wrong? In other words, using a bitrate calculator and plugging in the AVI files time in hours - minutes - seconds, then selecting the audio bitrate used,(192) and selecting single layer DVD, the estimated allowed maximum comes out to about 3000 kbits/s.

That's why I assumed the target number should always be the same as that when using VBR and the maximum should always be some number higher to help smooth out the motion scenes, while the minimum makes up for the over use of bits in the max while maintaining the overall rate. Whew ..

If I'm right, then that would mean your settings would allow for an even longer DVD in hours and minutes so long as the movement is about the same as the one I burned. These settings may not work well with big action scenes though.

All that is in my videos is a stationary pool table, balls rolling ( which btw can really display badly with too low a bitrate) and an occasional glimpse of the players walking around the table.