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2K 4K Broadcast Quality video questions?

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2K 4K Broadcast Quality video questions?

Postby Jeffrey W. Arnold » Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:04 pm

Once again, I have to tap the shoulder of my friends here at Muvipix in search of answers. Can someone tell me what the normal broadcast formats are for television video? Also, please forgive my ignorance, but what is 2k and 4k video? The other day I was at my son's house and watched a movie on his television, it was a blu-ray, and it was the cleanest clearest picture quality i have ever seen. Now I can burn to Blu-ray, and I have a professional camera, but I haven't had any of my projects turn out as clean as the one I watched on my son's TV. I record in 1080I so shouldn't the picture quality be at the highest level? or am I missing something?
Thanks Jeff,

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Re: 2K 4K Broadcast Quality video questions?

Postby Kent Frost » Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:31 pm

Full 1080 HD (i or p) = 1920x1080 pixels. Which could technically be considered 1.92k. But 4K is video that is 4x that resolution, weighing in at 4096 x 2160 pixels. It's new technology and most people don't have the hardware to really handle it as of yet, but 10 years ago it was the same story with 1080p HD. Sony does make monitors that are full 4K resolution, but they're pretty pricey. There are demos on display at Best Buy and equivalent retailers, and let me tell you - you thought 1080p is crisp and clean, 4K is like looking through a window.
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Re: 2K 4K Broadcast Quality video questions?

Postby Jeffrey W. Arnold » Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:49 pm

Thanks Kent, That is what I noticed looking at my son's Television. So, do you think I may have been looking at 4K? Also, does anyone know what the broadcast format is for television? If a video is submitted to one of the networks, what are the requirements?
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Re: 2K 4K Broadcast Quality video questions?

Postby Kent Frost » Tue Jul 15, 2014 6:48 am

At this point I'm not aware of any requirements because it's still so new. Chances are likely that for broadcast you'd be required to submit a 1080 HD version. I also would be willing to bet that you were looking at 1080 HD since pretty much no movies are available in 4K yet, nor are there any cheap 4K media player units. But 1080 HD in and of itself is nothing to sneeze at, especially when viewing Blu-Ray. Broadcast 1080 HD can look very blocky and compressed because it has to be to save bandwidth, but Blu-Ray is quite clean. Kind of the same difference between old school Standard definition Broadcast and Standard Definition DVD. The DVD was always much cleaner because your connection options between your DVD player and your TV were usually better than that of the cable box (coax, for example, is very sub-par compared to S-Video connections that were available with DVD players).
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Re: 2K 4K Broadcast Quality video questions?

Postby Steve Grisetti » Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:30 am

Kent's right. That crystal clear BluRay you were watching was 1920x1080.

Hard to imagine that's not high-definition enough, isn't it? When I watch HDTV, I can see the pock marks in the channel 6 news anchor's face!

Stranger still, a typical movie theater is using digital projection (hardly any movie theater shows film anymore) that is also at a mere 1920x1080. If you want to see the difference between HDTV and 4K "ultra HD", spend a couple of extra dollars to see your next movie on your cineplex's Imax screen. I saw "Gravity" on an Imax screen last summer and it was as close to actually being in outer space as I ever expect to be!
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Re: 2K 4K Broadcast Quality video questions?

Postby GerryB » Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:55 am

Here in the UK the BBC streamed, in 4K, a couple of the football world cup games to selected venues to demonstrate the quality, etc. I did not see the pictures, not invited!!! I can only see 4K getting off the ground when there is sufficient fibre broadband capacity and large screen devices at the right price. But I remember 405 line TV and we have moved a long way from then.
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Re: 2K 4K Broadcast Quality video questions?

Postby Kent Frost » Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:24 pm

One thing that's going to tremendously help 4K is the new h.265 encoding method. Right now most of us are all using h.264 in many camcorders, and even Blu-Ray uses it. But h.265 will allow even higher quality with more compression....so more quality in smaller spaces. Once this takes off, not only will 1080HD files become even smaller, but 4K Ultra HD becoming mainstream will be much more feasible.
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Re: 2K 4K Broadcast Quality video questions?

Postby BuddyB » Wed Jul 16, 2014 11:49 am

Is there an exam after all this? :mrgreen: Alrighty, the computer is 1080P, isn't that sharper than 1080I?
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Re: 2K 4K Broadcast Quality video questions?

Postby Kent Frost » Wed Jul 16, 2014 12:32 pm

It's actually the same resolution, but one is interlaced and the other is progressive. Both have their pros and cons, but I personally prefer 1080p myself. With progressive, every line of resolution is scanned one after the other (line 1, 2, 3, etc), whereas with interlaced they are scanned alternately (first going 1, 3, 5, 7, etc, then back up to do 2, 4, 6, etc). This creates 2 fields (odd/even) that, when played, create the full frames.
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Re: 2K 4K Broadcast Quality video questions?

Postby Steve Grisetti » Wed Jul 16, 2014 12:43 pm

1080p's chief advantage is when displaying action or sports events -- when (due to it showing 60 frames per second rather 30) the movement looks just a bit smoother.
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Re: 2K 4K Broadcast Quality video questions?

Postby Paz_Pazzaz » Wed Nov 02, 2016 4:38 pm

I know this is an old thread... thought I'd mention...

Early summer, 2016, I had just purchased a BBQ grill at my local WallyWorld when another customer came along lugging a 55" 4k TV to his car. Now you know, we southerners are a friendly bunch... not at all uncommon to compliment a stranger's shoes or hairdo or ask where they found that darling handbag, or just start up a conversation about little or nothing in general - so this was not considered rude - I asked the guy "how much" His reply? About $600. And he was thrilled. He said he and his wife had looked at them all and this one just had a fabulous picture.

Now a couple of years ago Mr. B and I bought a semi - smart, 55" in the $800 - 900 range at Best Buy. While I was comparing features, Mr. B sat on a comfy sofa and watched a 4k display set. He was mighty disappointed with our set when we got home - compared to what he'd seen on the set there until I mentioned he could buy that one if he wanted to. It was only $8,000. No more complaints! The thing is though, he is one of those people who doesn't generally pay much attention. TV is TV to him. But 4k. He noticed.

It will be interesting to see if 4k really catches on or not. I'm sure we all know the story of BetaMax vx VHS.
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Re: 2K 4K Broadcast Quality video questions?

Postby Peru » Wed Nov 02, 2016 6:47 pm

Paz_Pazzaz wrote:It will be interesting to see if 4k really catches on or not. I'm sure we all know the story of BetaMax vx VHS.


I suspect that 4K will be replaced by 8K before 4K becomes mainstream. With the new SSDs and higher capacities, who knows where it will end?
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Re: 2K 4K Broadcast Quality video questions?

Postby Chris B » Thu Nov 03, 2016 2:28 pm

By far the more interesting part of 4K/8K and the associated standard (REC2020) is the increased colour space. Here's a diagram showing the colour space of Rec709 (HD) and Rec2020
https://dot-color.com/2012/12/04/so-you ... ec709-001/

Getting a TV that actually conforms to the UHDTV standard (either 10 or 12 bit colour) will give far more of a difference than going to 4K over HD - Especially at smaller TV sizes. This is being marketed as "UHD Premium" but only exists on certain models at the moment. And yes - you're going to need a new disk player and/or streaming service.

If you can go and see one of the OLED panels from LG somewhere (In the UK they are in PC world) it's well worth doing. They are eerily real - almost looking 3D. "Normal" 4K looks very flat compared to them. Somewhat outside of my price range at the moment...
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Re: 2K 4K Broadcast Quality video questions?

Postby Paz_Pazzaz » Fri Nov 04, 2016 9:32 am

If you can go and see one of the OLED panels from LG somewhere (In the UK they are in PC world) it's well worth doing. They are eerily real - almost looking 3D. "Normal" 4K looks very flat compared to them.


Wow. I'll try to find one. I remember the TV this guy bought was an LG because I had just purchased a 4k LG 27" monitor for my new setup. Love it. I don't know if my monitor is "OLED" or not. Probably not. I could (barely) afford it!

I doubt my camera is filming, that is videoing in 10 or 12 bit either, but if the video quality is MUCH better, that would be sweet.

OLED Definition:

OLED TV is a television display technology based on the characteristics of organic light-emitting diodes (OLED). OLED TV is a different technology than LED TV. The OLED display is based an organic substance used as the semiconductor material in light-emitting diodes (LEDs).

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