Sony Architect Workflow

[edmacke]

Hello all, first time post on muvipix!

Steve G. suggested in Adobe's Premiere Elements forum that Sony Architect offers much more flexibility for DVD menus, etc. than the built-in authoring in Premiere Elements (which is what I currently use).

My question is how would I need to change my current workflow to use it? Steve was unsure, and said the helpful folks here would know...

Typically, I'll have an hour-long "home movie" DVD that consists of several "sub-projects", each anywhere from around 2 to 5 minutes. When I'm done with a sub-project, I'll export it to DV-AVI.

So let's say I now have 12 AVIs - each from a sub-project, and I'm ready to burn them to DVD.

Currently, I'd create a new project in Premiere Elements, put all 12 AVIs on the timeline, add scene markers, create my titles, etc. and burn my DVD to a folder. I then use Nero to burn the actual DVD from that folder.

Now, if I use Sony Architect, how would my workflow change?

• Would I bring those 12 .AVIs into Architect and put them on a timeline?
• Would I create a new project in PE, put the 12 AVIs on a timeline, and export to a single, combined hour-long AVI that I'd bring into Architect?
• Something else???
• Can Architect "burn" the DVD to a folder, so that I can use Nero to actually burn the DVD?

Thanks so much!
Ed Macke

[cdeemer]

I use Sony Architect and love it. You can do anything you want but Architect prefers mpg files ... you can make menus and submenus and sub to the sub, ad infinitum ... what I would do, is save each menu item as a separate mpg file from PE, which you;d then import into Architect. You also can make your own backgrounds, use any media file as bg, etc etc ... very powerful program. In PE, think in terms of menu items -- save those. I'm not sure if the dvd markers in PE work in Architect but I suspect they do ... to keep files smaller, I make separate PE projects for each menu item, although since trying Sony Vegas, which exports directly to Architect seamlessly, I may be using Vegas more than PE. (It's also more visual and intuitive, though less powerful).

So, to summarize: sketch your menu ... and make an mpg file for each of its items. That would be easiest, I think.

[Chuck Engels]

Hi Ed, Just wanted to say Welcome to Muvipix

There are quite a few DVD Architect users here and I'm glad to see that Charles has already pitched in
I could give you the workflow for Encore DVD but that wouldn't be much help

[Bill Hunt]

Welcome Ed,

I responded to your post in the Adobe PE forum, with about what Chuck just offered. There WILL be some things lost in translation between the two programs.

I see that Charles has already given you a tip on the types of Assets to Import. The link that I gave in the Adobe forum for a workflow, differs. Follow Charles' suggestion there, not mine, 'cause I was writing specifically for Encore. Still a lot of the general theory should work fine.

The DVD Architect experts here can get you going quickly in that program.

Hunt

[edmacke]

So, to summarize: sketch your menu ... and make an mpg file for each of its items. That would be easiest, I think.

Hmm. That's a little different! Right now, I determine my menu items by 1) how many menu items fit in my chosen template, then 2) where might be a logical point for a break. For instance, if I choose a template that has 4 menu items per screen, I'll find 4 (or some multiple of 4) points in the movie to put in scene markers. In other words, scene markers are pretty much the last thing I do. Now I'm going to have to think ahead, apparently!

save each menu item as a separate mpg file from PE, which you'd then import into Architect.

Ugh. OK, let's pretend I've never exported an mpeg file from PE.... any advice on the detailed settings on the export dialog that will make it work best with Architect? MPEG-1? MPEG-2? MPEG-99? De-super-interlaced? Whatever other weird settings are always on those screens? This is new territory for me.

Hunt (from Adobe forum)... I use Encore exclusively, I have heard many good things about DVD Architect

A quick web search... Sony Architect goes for about $40, Encore looks like it's a couple hundred - is that right? With my purchase authority (aka what my wife allows), I could swing $40, not so much $200.

[cdeemer]

I got Architect version four (the prev version) at Amazon for something like ten bucks. Can't remember, REALLY cheap, new, unopened box, works like a charm. With Vegas Studio I got Architect 4.5 included, don't see much different. I'm a great fan of buying PREVIOUS versions of software at ridiculously low prices.

[cdeemer]

You can use the workflow markets in PE or whatever they're called to define what gets exported as mpg ... and you can make this decision at the end as you do now. I'm a structuralist ha ha, so I always know what my menu will look like before I even start shooting.

[edmacke]

You can use the workflow markers in PE or whatever they're called to define what gets exported as mpg

That's true. I guess I could just bring in all my AVIs as I do now, decide what constitutes a "scene", and export that section as an MPG. Any tips on what export settings to use???

I'm a structuralist ha ha, so I always know what my menu will look like before I even start shooting.

Normally, I'm like that, too..

But my current (multi-year) project is to convert all my home movies from 1992-present into DVDs. And, of course, cut out the garbage (about 80%). So basically, I started with 1992, and when I got to about an hour's worth of edited material, burned it to a DVD. Then, continue on with where I left off. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Scene markers just end up being things like "Christmas 1992", that kind of thing.

[cdeemer]

I'd have to look at the menu to see what I use ... I'm at the university, PE is on my home computer. If this isn't answered when I get home, I'll tell you what I use. I don't recall doing more than selecting mgp and leaving all the settings in the window as is.

[Bill Hunt]

Ed,

Another problem with Encore, is that it is no longer offered as a stand-alone program. It only comes bundled with Premiere Pro (now CS4), so it is likely not an option. Still, there are similarities, as with *most* DVD authoring programs. With only minor considerations for the particular program, most workflow will translate.

Probably the biggest key to success is to find out what type of Assets your particular program likes best and always feed it those types of Assets. If the program wants MPG-2 w/ Dolby Digital Audio, then Export from your NLE in that type/format. The documentation should explain which Assets work best. Don't just go with the list of "accepted" file types/formats. As an example, Encore will handle many MP3's, but gags on other MP3's. Therefore, I always give it WAV or AC3 (DD 5.1 SS). I'm sure that DVD Architect is the same, in that it will work best and flawlessly with certain file types/formats. The less you mix these, the better off you will be and the easier your projects will build.

Hunt

PS for some tips on doing flowcharts for layout, I did an article on Muvipix on using Adobe Illustrator. One can easily adapt that workflow to many graphics programs and even to flowchart programs.

[edmacke]

...find out what type of Assets your particular program likes best and always feed it those types of Assets.

Sounds like good advice, Hunt! I know over on the Premiere forum people are always having problems with MPEG or some other format, and the advice is always: convert to DV-AVI because that's what Premiere likes!

With Architect, it sounds like MPEG is the way to go. My impression was always that MPEG had a lot of variables, though, and I'm wondering if there's a particular variant of MPEG that Architect likes... I think one of the other posters was looking into that...

My experience with video editing, and to some extend photo editing, is that it does seem to go much better when you work WITH your software, not AGAINST it!

Another problem with Encore, is that it is no longer offered as a stand-alone program

That would explain why I had problems finding it...

[Bill Hunt]

Ed,

It *sounds* like Architect wants the Assets ready to be burned to DVD. This might indicate that either it doesn't have the MPEG encoder (I think that this is unlikely), or that the designers felt that it was better for the user to do this from the NLE.

You are so right about the variables in Exporting an MPG for DVD authoring. One has to consider the Audio encoding scheme, whether PCM/WAV or DD AC3 (MPG audio can only be used as a "supplemental," or "optional" Audio format for NTSC DVD's, though some PAL systems do take it. It is becoming "optional," there as well. Then, one has to weigh the combined bit-rates for both the Audio and the Video vs the size of the DVD (DVD-5 or DVD-9) plus factor in the overhead of Menus, etc.. There are bit-rate calculators available, but there is a "black art" to a lot of this.

That is one of the reasons that I like Encore so much. I feed it DV-AVI Video and AC3 Audio (elemental streams, not mux'ed) and it does the "heavy lifting" for me. I wish that I knew Architect, as I cannot make any suggestions based on its use.

If it CAN handle the DV-AVI and then encode automatically to fit, that would be my first suggestion. If you are seeing a deterioration in quality, you might want to look into "bit-budgeting," as an alternative. Though the forum is designed around Encore, there are a lot of great discussions on bit-budgeting in it. Neil Wilkes, Jeff Bellune and Ruud Blauw have written some great articles on how to do it, what needs to be considered, what the general overhead requirements are and how to achieve the best possible results, base on the footage. I'll see if I can find links to some of these. Though in the Encore forum, these discussions are not software specific and will translate well to Export from any NLE into almost any authoring program.

Also, the folks, who use Architect here can probably give you great tips on how they do it and what works best.

Hunt

[Edit] Here are some links to articles with a lot of the info, plus additional links to resources and even more articles:
http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?14@@.59b51c6d/0
http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.3bc4756e/0
http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.3bc1416c/1
http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.3bc1c166/7
http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.3bc4cc43/1
http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.3bc4481d/1

Also, I highly recommend a book, "DVD Demystified." It covers everything one could possibly want to know about the production of DVD's. It does not read like Faulkner, but more like a text for a course in Advanced Thermodynamics.

[edmacke]

Yikes!!!

I started off with just wanting to create a little more sophisticated DVD menus, and next thing you know I've fallen in the rabbit hole of audio/video! I read through the linked forum messages (which, thank you for providing, BTW), and came away with equal parts headache and desire to pursue an Electrical Engineering degree!

I hope that this level of MPG expertise isn't necessary to use Architect. I want to spend my time create home movies that make my family laugh and cry, not calculating bit-rates. Quite frankly, that's what I expect the software to be doing. Don't get me wrong, I'm a programmer by trade so Lord knows I love the techie stuff, but this is one area where I'd prefer to remain blissfully unaware.

So, Architect experts, chime in!

• Can I just pull my Premiere-exported DV-AVI in, or is MPG really the better way to go?
• If MPG is preferred, are there some simple export settings you can give me?
• Is it really this hard just to create some fancier menus? Is intimate knowledge of DVD workings required just to move beyond the standard Premiere menu templates?

[Bill Hunt]

Ed,

I doubt that it is. I'd *guess* that it offers some form of "automatic" Transcoding feature(s), just like PE does and like Encore offers.

I understand that "rabbit-hole." There is a lot to have to consider, and that is why I normally let Encore do it for me. With just a bit of planning (things like run-time, final quality and DVD size), the "automatic" takes care of all of the rest.

I'm betting that Architect will handle much of that and am waiting to learn myself. Though I'll not likely give up Encore anytime soon, the more one learns, the better.

Now, when you want to get into DD 5.1 Surround sound and DTS encoding, let me know. I have about 10x the links (most feature the expertise of the same Neil Wilkes from above) and a hundred great books to recommend...

Good luck,

Hunt

[cdeemer]

I think you're making this into a much bigger more stressful deal than it is. I edit in PE, export as mpg USING ALL THE DEFAULT SETTINGS, import into Architect. Everything turns out great. (I only export as mpg because Architect prefers mpg. Otherwise I export as avi). I mean, I don't spend a single moment "thinking" or "stressing" about anything! Click, click, it's done.