Output Video - pg 209 Muvipix Guide

[Jordanmphoto]

I have two parts of a video that I'm now assembling for output. I want it to be high definition, so I saved it as an MPEG using the 1440x1080 25 preset. I then started a new project and set the project presets for the HDV project preset. This preset had only 30fps settings and I have been shooting at 25fps, but I didn't have any other choice so that's what I used to add both files with "Add Media". When I placed the clip into the Timeline it said that the format of the clip does not match the preset for the new project, so I went ahead and let it change the clip to the project preset.

The MPEG files which were output from the original files look beautiful when I play them on the computer with WMP and are definitely high resolution. However, if I play back the video in the new project after combining them, it is in low resolution, or at least much lower resolution than I was seeing when I played back the original videos. There is flickering and jagged edges. It seems there was some loss of quality having to do with how I brought the files into the project.

What did I miss here? Should I have shared the original files as DVI's? I used "Add Media", but I'm wondering if there was some other way I was supposed to have combined them. If possible I would like both clips in one file in their original editable format, but is it possible to just clip and paste them?

[Paul LS]

Not sure why you are not seeing the HDV 25fps option... are you sure you are looking in the PAL presets folder dropdown and not the NTSC folder? You need to use the HDV 25fps project preset for combining your HDV clips not DV-AVI's if you want to retain the high definition.

You say it appears low resolution when you play back the clips in the new project... are you judging the quality in the the preview monitor or after export?

[Steve Grisetti]

I agree with Paul. The HDV 25 fps option should be under the PAL project settings.

That should solve your quality issues --- which, as Paul indicates, are likely related to your using the video with the wrong project settings and, because of that, needing rendering.

[Jordanmphoto]

Not sure why you are not seeing the HDV 25fps option... are you sure you are looking in the PAL presets folder dropdown and not the NTSC folder? You need to use the HDV 25fps project preset for combining your HDV clips not DV-AVI's if you want to retain the high definition.

You say it appears low resolution when you play back the clips in the new project... are you judging the quality in the the preview monitor or after export?

Good ideas. You're right and yet I'm still full of questions . . .

I tried this whole process over again last night. This time I took another look at the MPEG's which came from the original files and somehow I figured out that they were in PAL format rather than NTSC format (which I do not understand since I always choose NTSC format, because I understood it was North American standard). So this time when I set up presets for a new project I tried the PAL options and chose HDV 1080i 25. When I dragged the clip into the Timeline it still said my formats didn't match, so I let it change the project preset to match the clips, which had been saved as MPEG2 1440x1080i 25 (I never saw a share option format which exactly matches those that are offered as project presets). As far as I could see in the playback, it still looked a bit scraggly, but I went ahead and "shared" it again as an MPEG2 1440x1080i (Please see my question below about exporting/sharing). This MPEG seems slightly less sharp than the first MPEG's from the original files, however one has to be really fussy to notice the difference. I may be way off base here, but it seems to me that transposing to an MPEG is lossy and it would be better if Adobe had a way to combine files without adding an extra transposing process. But the bottom line is that the output looks pretty good to me anyway.

Is there a difference between "sharing" and "exporting" or are they used interchangeably? I notice that the menu option for FILE/EXPORT is always greyed out and I'm wondering when it is available and for what purpose.

Since we're here talking about project presets, I'm wondering if I'm using the right one for a Canon 60D DSLR if I'm intending to produce high res videos. I always have the project preset as NTSC DSLR 1080p 24, but I'm wondering if I should have chosen one of the other options. As you noted, the NTSC HDV options are only for 30fps. However there's a PAL DSLR 1080ip25 option and a PAL HDV 1080i 25 option. Would one of these be better for what I'm doing? (The camera is set for NTSC -- does it make a difference if the preset is PAL?)

I have two last questions which may sound silly, but they always bother me: First, how do you tell which project you have open at any particular time? I do not see the project name listed anywhere in the interface and the only way I can see it is to SAVE AS and see what file name it offers. Second, how can you tell what the current project's format is? I have tried EDIT/Project Properties, but I don't see any of the format options.

[Steve Grisetti]

Unfortunately, the specs Canon has posted online don't say what the dimensions or frame rate of the 60D's video are. But it is pretty important that you do know so that you can set up your project correctly. If you're using 30i video, for instance, in a project set up for 24p, you're going to see some pretty serious loss of quality when you output your video.

Yes, sharing and exporting are the same things. Adobe just decided to integrate the export options into the interface as Share options -- and, as you've seen, disabled the Export options. So Share means export, essentially. (athough in professional programs, Share is a little closer to Render As, a higher-end output area than Export -- but that's a whole other discussion.)

Finally, the easiest way to see which project you're working on is to hover your mouse cursor over the PRE logo in the upper left of the program's interface. When you do, the name of your project will appear.

[Jordanmphoto]

Unfortunately, the specs Canon has posted online don't say what the dimensions or frame rate of the 60D's video are. But it is pretty important that you do know so that you can set up your project correctly. If you're using 30i video, for instance, in a project set up for 24p, you're going to see some pretty serious loss of quality when you output your video.

Yeah, I think that may be exactly what happened with that first video attempt. Supposedly the program changed the presets to fit the clip properties because they didn't match, but I'm not sure if it changed the frame rate, since I don't know where to view the format for the current project.

FYI, the frame rate and resolution for the 60D are variable because they are set by the user. In full HD (1920x1080p) it can be either 24fps or 30 fps and the field guide says you can also get 25fps in PAL. There is a regular SD or HD which is 50 or 60 fps, but I haven't heard of anyone shooting DSLR video these days in less than full HD. 25 fps is supposed to approximate the look of movies and seems to be recommended by many. However, I am just now looking at the 60D field guide and it says that 30 fps is TV standard in North America and is suitable for DVD or display on normal TV's. That's an interesting bit of information because it also says that 24fps can have "jerky motion for subjects that are moving" and requires 1/50 shutter speed (which is what I use). I have been wrestling with the problem of jerky motion, so maybe it would be worth trying out the 30fps.

Later Note: I think I got to the bottom of this by googling to wisegeek.com. It goes back to the type of electrical system a country has. In the US we have 60 HZ and this technically boils down to 30 lines and 30 alternating lines, which means 30 frames appearing per second. In Europe they have 50 HZ so it comes down to 25 frames per second. If you convert from one to the other you either lose or add 5 frames. Either way, there can be a "jerk". So NTSC for US TV is 30fps and PAL for Europe is 25fps. Apparently US DVD's won't even play in Europe and vice versa. If the geeks are right, those of us who want to produce DVD's or Blue Rays to be displayed on North American TVs should be shooting in 30fps rather than 25fps. This may explain the problem I had with a freeware editing program: the 25fps file looked wonderful when output to a computer file, but was jerky when put on a DVD. I notice now that if you burn to a disc from PE, there is no choice about fps; only a choice between NTSC and PAL. So I'm guessing that everything output to a DVD for NTSC is going to be 30fps, so somewhere PE has to add 5 frames per second to my file. What an insight!

[Bob]

25 fps is supposed to approximate the look of movies...

25 fps is the frame rate for the PAL standard.

24 fps has been the de facto frame rate used for sound motion pictures since the mid to late 1920s. 24 fps is not as smooth as footage captured at a higher frame rate. That's especially noticable in panning or fast motion where the image can actually appear blurred or out of sync. Many peoply like that stuttering look -- probably because they are used to seeing it in theaters and associate it with professional productions. Personally, I wouldn't use it unless I was planning on transfering to film stock -- which isn't likely.

24 fps isn't really going to buy you much in the way of "cinematic look". That's mainly a factor of the depth of focus of the lenses you use and the color saturation and contrast of the image. The cameras used by the motion picture studios can use longer focal length lenses which have a shallower depth of field. The camcorders that most of use have use shorter focal length lenses with a large depth of field resulting in the entire image being in focus (often called the "soap opera look"). Using your dslr, you can take advantage of the shallower depth of field possible with longer focal length lenses to get that "cinematic" look.

Don't mix your frame rates. If the media frame rate doesn't match the preset, the image can be degraded and judder may be introduced.

[Steve Grisetti]

By George, I think you've got it!

In simple terms: Match your project settings to your video's format, dimensions and frame rate. For DSLRs shooting 1920x1080 HD, that means ensure that your project settings also indicate whether your video was shot in (NTSC) 24p, 30p or 29.97p.

[Jordanmphoto]

Based on what I found listed for HDV presets, you get only 25fps if you are using PAL presets and only 30fps if using NTSC presets. There are more options if it's DSLR rather than HDV. I'm not sure if it works to use DSLR 25fps NTSC and then try to burn to a DVD or Blue Ray, which I think are 30 fps in NTSC (but I will soon find out since I'm going to attempt to burn a DVD). If you output to a PAL format on a DVD or Blue Ray, will it play in the US? I'm a bit confused about that It appears to me that for HDV you may have to stick with either 30fps NTSC or 25fps PAL or else you will have some problems with playback.

[Steve Grisetti]

You may well have issues trying to play a PAL DVD on a NTSC disc player, Jordan.

But we may be confusing things at this point. We're talking about two different settings here. (And, by the way, are you in NTSC land? I'm kind of assuming so, even though you keep mentioning PAL frame rates.)

Your project setting should match the video going in. Check your camera or camcorder so that you know what mode, dimensions and frame rate you're shooting in.

Then, if you want to use the high-def video in another project, you select Share/MPEG/1440x1080 30 fps (again, assuming you're in NTSC land).

This video will go into a project that uses the NTSC HDV project settings.

Make sense?