Mapping Input Footage profile to New Project profile

[nickky007]

As Chuck adviced me I will post my questions that emerged from my first project one by one in a new topic. Let me start at the beginning of the workflow:
"Why can't I get the project profile to _completely_ match my input and output needs?
Project Properties := Input footage properties
Project Properties := Output footage properties
(The PrE option panes simply do not include all needed properties)"

Since according to Steve’s books (e.g. The Muvipix.com Guide to Adobe Premiere Elements 9, p. 27), setting the project up using the proper preset is essential to a smooth workflow and the output results…, may I start with this topic. Though there are many presets available and though the book contains abundant description of each preset, I still am not sure to what detail this parameter mapping should be broken down in order to get a smooth workflow and the desired results. I did not find a way to refine the parameter details in the presets and do not completely understand some points. The following concerns prevent me to be happy with my understanding of this important topic:

New project … offers fixed presets only. No choices for AVC levels, bitrates and audio parameters!

There is no freedom to change predefined video and audio parameters to completely match input footage parameters.
In my localized (German) Pre9 version, some parameters shown are not changeable.
Some parameters and reported settings, I simply do not understand:
Uses PAL footage Drop-Frame-Timecode?
Grayed out indication Progressive Scan while footage is definitely interlaced.
Which audio contains "PAL, AVCHD, Full HD 1080i preset", mpa or ac3 (my guess is mpa)?

Share… … offers fixed presets only. No choices for AVC levels, bitrates and audio parameters!

Furthermore:
Though there are AVCHD presets there is no Share option to output AVCHD folders to hard disk, to share AVCHD folders, (e.g. using USB sticks) and to burn AVCHD folders on BD5/BD9 (DVD+SL/DL discs).

Details and visualization can be found in screenshots which I packed into a zip-file (hoping that it will stay an attachment and will not automatically expand). The zip-file contains:
New project - fixed presets ONLY!.jpg
Mismatched Project Settings Preset repair tool test (Part 1).jpg
Mismatched Project Settings Preset repair tool test (Part 2).jpg
Profile Wizard for SVR support.jpg
TG7VE HD FH 00000.MTS MediaInfo.txt
TG7VE HD FQ 00000.MTS MediaInfo.txt

My objective is to choose the best possible New project profiles for my
Input Footage with the following audio and video profiles:

1. Camcorder
Sony TG7VE HD FH
Profile HD FH 18Mbps 1920x1080i TFF, 25 fps, 16/9, 4:2:0 24 bits 00000.MTS, BDAV, AVC Main@L4.0
Profile HD FQ 9 Mbps 1440x1080i TFF, 25 fps, 16/9, 4:2:0 24 bits
Profile HD SP 7 Mbps 1440x1080i TFF, 25 fps, 16/9, 4:2:0 24 bits
Profile HD LP 5 Mbps 1440x1080i TFF, 25 fps, 16/9, 4:2:0 24 bits

2. Digital camera
Exilim EX-V7, 29,97 fps MOV Videos.
Video: MOV H.264, 29.97 fps, 848x480, 16,7 Mill,
Audio: DVI IMA, Stereo, 44.1 kHz

3. Digital video recordings from DVB-S2 Sat Free TV (Astra 19.2°)
AVC Main@L4.0, 1280x720p, 50 fps, 16/9, 4:2:0 24 bits
and
AVC Main@L4.0, 1920x1080i, 25 fps, 16/9, 4:2:0 24 bits, MBAFF

Output destinations:
PAL DVD, AVCHD (folder, BD5/BD9 disc, USB stick) and
COWON O2 Profile (like badaboom iPhone Profile)
BaseLine@2.1, 1000kbps VBR, Key-Frame-Mode: Fixed, Interval 60
30fps 480x272p 16:9 O2 with DAR 1:1, AAC 160kbps

In a nutshell:
Are the lack of freedom in preset parameter setting and choice in Share production output options features PrE is proud of and users are happy with?
Are my interpretations and conclusions wrong? All? Why?
Did I miss something?
What are the correct profiles which I should use for my footage?

Thanks for your hep in advance!

[Steve Grisetti]

I have to say, Niccky, that supporting these multi-format camcorders has become the bane of my existence! They add so many variables to the equation.

My main recommendation when working with this particular camcorder has been to shoot only in FH quality and then use the PAL AVCHD 1920x1080 Stereo project preset. That should very much be a good match.

If you want to try shooting at a lower quality (say, HQ mode), and then checking to see if it also works with that preset (or, if it produces 1440x1080, the matching preset), I've love to hear you're results. I've not had a chance to experiment myself.

Our rule of thumb is that, when you're using the right preset, you will see no red "render" lines above your video clips when you place them on the timeline. If that's the case, you're good to go!

From the specs you posted, you should also be able to use the AVCHD Lite 1280x720 with yout DVB-S2 footage. But please to try it and let us know your results.

But I don't recommend using footage from mixed sources in the same project. It almost always leads to heartache.

As for your other video source -- the Exilim, I don't know what that is, but it's definitely non-standard camcorder video, so your success using it in Premiere Elements may vary.

[RJ Johnston]

Regarding AVCHD Disc:

There is no way to directly create AVCHD discs (BD-5, BD-9) in Premiere Elements 9.

If you want to create AVCHD discs, you will have to burn a Blu-ray disc to a virtual or real BD. Then copy the BD file structure to your hard drive. Then you have to use a utility to modify the index file. After that use ImageBurn to burn the disc to a DVD.

I use VirtualCD 10 for a virtual BD-Drive: http://www.virtualcd-online.com/

The utility to modify the index file is AVCHD-Patcher-1.06 and requires Net 3.5, DIRECT DOWNLOAD: http://www.videohelp.com/download/AVCHD ... r_1.06.rar

[RJ Johnston]

Regarding AVC profiles and bitrates.

You don't set those in the project settings. You select those via Share after your project is complete. For example, Share > Personal Computer > MPEG. Then select one of the H.264 profiles. Then click the "Advanced" button to access advanced settings.

Premiere Elements allows only 2 audio channels on export.

[nickky007]

I have to say, Niccky, that supporting these multi-format camcorders has become the bane of my existence!…

See it from the other side, from a user’s point of view:
“PrE9 might easily become the bane of (new) user’s existence”
Want some evidence?
* Poor to no AVCHD support! (see attached screenshot)
* No real user support from Adobe for owners of localized versions!
* And much more! I probably compile a list and post it in a different thread!

Here your books step in. Your two PrE9 books rock! IMHO your books are of great help for me and every new user!
Adobe should ship these books with every Pre9!!!

My main recommendation when working with this particular camcorder has been to shoot only in FH quality and then use the PAL AVCHD 1920x1080 Stereo project preset. That should very much be a good match.
...
Our rule of thumb is that, when you're using the right preset, you will see no red "render" lines above your video clips when you place them on the timeline. If that's the case, you're good to go!

I highlighted here what I certainly will never forget any more.
Will post AVCHD Lite 1280x720 results as soon as my time will allow to do such projects.

Regarding AVCHD Disc:
There is no way to directly create AVCHD discs (BD-5, BD-9) in Premiere Elements 9...

Yes, I noticed that. I will try to follow your workaround. It may also solve the missing ‘output to folder’ issue. But where do you control the output video and audio bitrate?

Thak you very much for your interesting and helpful tips!

P.S.
Do my screenshots help to explain the details of what I try to communicate? If not I will stop attaching screenshots.

[Steve Grisetti]

Thanks for the kind compliments on the book, Nickky.

Yes, you are correct when you say that not every input/project preset has a matching output preset. That's just not how the program is supposed to work.

The project presets are designed to set the program up to work with your specific video format type. And, in version 9, most consumer camcorder formats are well represented.

But the output presets are designed so that you can output your project in any of the major delivery formats: A DVD, a BluRay disc, a web viewing format, a format that can be viewed on a portable device, etc.

There's really no point in being able to get out the same file you put in. The program's purpose is to create a video format that you can share. Does that make sense?

Meantime, Nickky, can you do us a favor? In the future, can you attach your screen captures to your posts as JPEGs rather than RAR or ZIP files? It make it much easier for us to view them. Thanks!

[nickky007]

...There's really no point in being able to get out the same file you put in. The program's purpose is to create a video format that you can share. Does that make sense?...

Yes, agreed, it sure makes sense to share. But would sharability be necessarily disabled by beeing able to choose video and audio bitrates?
After all, I like symmetry: "Garbage in, garbage out".
But again, you are right. When I drive into the car wash with my old little car, I sometiemes would prefer if I came out in a cool Porsche or Ferrari.
I love software that allows me to get out the same 'sharable' file format which I put in: m2ts in <-> m2ts out. Value added with some effects and transitions and a nice menu and packed into a sharable DVD and/or AVCHD/BD "container" (VIDEO_TS or BDMV folder structure).

...Meantime, Nickky, can you do us a favor? In the future, can you attach your screen captures to your posts as JPEGs rather than RAR or ZIP files? It make it much easier for us to view them. Thanks!

OK, will do so. Was to shy to overload the post with images, which need to be large to be able to see the details. Is it possible to have a small version of the JPG displayed within the post which can be enlarged at the readers joice? I've seen that elsewhere but do not know how to do it.

[Steve Grisetti]

When you find that car wash, Nickky, be sure to let me know where it is!

Meantime, remember that editing video is less like washing a car and more like cooking a meal. That chicken cacciatorre or fried chicken you serve for dinner may have started out raw chicken parts -- but the whole purpose of cooking it is to get something you can serve to company in the end.

(On the other hand, sometimes you want to just de-bone the chicken and still have raw chicken in the end -- so I guess my metaphor doesn't work completely...)

[nickky007]

Hi, Steve, this is your point!
Though I can't cook I enjoy fine dinners. But with applications I love symmetry:

Missing Share AVCHD support.jpg

[Chuck Engels]

You are talking about two very different options here; Import VS Export.
There are many options that do not translate from Import to Export and Adobe has removed some of the import and export options as well. There may be an export option that would be the same under another format, have you checked other export formats to see if that option exists?

[Paul LS]

The bitrate does not need to be set in the Project import parameters... just for the export. You can use the MPEG2 "Share" option and select the H.264 preset that is "equivalent" to AVCHD. You can set the bitrate in the "Advanced" drop down, where you can also adjust other parameters for the audio and video.

[nickky007]

The bitrate does not need to be set in the Project import parameters... just for the export. You can use the MPEG2 "Share" option and select the H.264 preset that is "equivalent" to AVCHD. You can set the bitrate in the "Advanced" drop down, where you can also adjust other parameters for the audio and video.

Yes. I have noticed that.
But I will loose the _Disc menu_ feature, the ability to share with a disc menu, don't I?

Or does PrE "Smart Re-enconding", im my case "smart = NO" Re-encoding, when, after following your advice, I share the m2ts to my harddisk and re-import it for Disc-menu processing and finally sharing as AVCHD with menu? This procedure is said to work with other Consumer Applications.
But with PrE9? I guess not. I tried it and it did not work for me. Maybe my fault.

[Paul LS]

Unfortunately Premiere Elements does not do smart-rendering of MPEG or AVCHD formats. If you are going to burn a BD to a virtual drive and then create an AVCHD disc why do you need to export? I thought you would simply Share to BD disc... so no need to export.

[nickky007]

Unfortunately Premiere Elements does not do smart-rendering of MPEG or AVCHD formats. If you are going to burn a BD to a virtual drive and then create an AVCHD disc why do you need to export? I thought you would simply Share to BD disc... so no need to export.

Lack of freedom of choice always is a no win situation:
>> No smart rendering ... -> every work flow cycle leads to compression loss.
>> Share to BD + no bitrate control ... -> no control to match to BD5 / BD9 (DVD media)
>> Share to BD + Menu templates not properly working... -> BD without menu only
>> export to m2ts ... was your idea that I should do if I want bitrate control... >> but then I do not get a BD with menu to share it.

My conclusion:
Adobe should improve PrE9 for more usability or it might loose customers to other consumer product which offer proper features.
I take my time and efforts to learn and get accustomed to PrE9. May Adobe take time and effort to learn what customers want,
else customers will look at and eventually leave towards other mother's nice daughters as a proverb says.

@Chuck
I am not only talking about "two very different options here; Import VS Export".
What I intend to maintain is the option of "workflow cycles":
do a round of improvements, save the result (output), may be some time later, come back, start the next round of edits (input based on the earlier output). Here symmetry of input and output would be an advatange, wouldn't it?
Furthermore this:
PrE9 hosts the superb Neat Video plug-in. That is one of my main interests in PrE9! -> So I use PrE9 to Neat-Video-process my footage.
Vdl17 hosts the outstanding Mercally de-shake plug-in, one of the reasons why I also have some interest in Vdl17. -> Have a workflow integrating both. Good and flexible Input/Output options help.
Think about attractive menus and chapter definitions. Well, PrE9 + Vdl17 + PD8 will not be enough...
It is like World Trade: all is about workflows and cycles, export & import... IMHO import&export, Input&output should by the two sides of the same coin, the symmetry which insures development cycles!

[Chuck Engels]

I think you are trying to make a consumer level product into a professional application for some things.
For what you are trying to accomplish you might be much better off with a professional version of Premiere or Vegas rather than Elements.

The Blu Ray menus should work regardless, Elements or Pro.