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ACR CS5 & DNG

A discussion area specific to the Photoshop Pro versions.

ACR CS5 & DNG

Postby momoffduty » Wed Aug 01, 2012 7:39 pm

In Camera Raw after changes are made there is a preview check box for that panel. Which works as it should. But, when I am "Done" on a DNG file and then reopen in ACR that preview does not show the before changes. I can reset all of the sliders and it will revert back to the original. Is this the normal behavior for the preview on reopen?
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Re: ACR CS5 & DNG

Postby VernonRobinson » Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:22 pm

Cheryl,
If I understand your question correctly, you are saying that after you make (develop) a picture using Adobe Camera Raw, when you repopen the digital negative, you see it as you last "developed it". That is the correct behaviour. ACR changes are non-destructive. The changes are stored in a "side car" file with a ".xmp" extension. These contain the development settings that have been applied to your digital negative. If you move your raw file to another directory and forget to take the xmp file, ACR does not know how to apply the settings and your images will revert back to their initial state also. So if you back up your files, don't forget the xmp extensions.

I hope that helps.

Regards,
-Vernon
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Re: ACR CS5 & DNG

Postby Bob » Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:49 pm

Is this the normal behavior for the preview on reopen?


Yes, it is.

After reopening the changed file, If you click on the Camera Raw Menu Settings button in the acr dialog box, you will see that it is set to "Image Settings". Camera Raw recognized that the file contained saved metadata for the changes and used them to display the image. This is normally what you would want.

acr-settings.jpg


If you select "Camera Raw Defaults" from the menu, you will override the saved image settings and apply the Camera Raw Default settings. If you subsequently save the file again, the then current settings will be saved.

Note: The image that displays when Preview is unchecked is the image as loaded in this session with any saved settings applied. Selecting "Camera Raw Defaults" from the menu does not change that. Changing the menu setting only affects the current settings.

DNG files can save the metadata in the DNG file, no sidecar file is needed. Other types of raw files use a side car file to save the settings metadata.
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Re: ACR CS5 & DNG

Postby momoffduty » Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:13 am

Thanks for the responses. So the Preview is available for only the current session. I thought it was user error. :-8

If I want to see the original file vs. the changed (developed?) file later on AFTER I hit Done and then reopen, should I first do a Snapshop of the original file on the first session? How much will the snapshot increase the file size? Is there a better way?

I can see later on that when I finish a session I probably won't revisit the file, but still learning I would like the opportunity.
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Re: ACR CS5 & DNG

Postby Bob » Thu Aug 02, 2012 12:05 pm

Raw files don't have snapshots. The original raw file contains the camera sensor data and metadata including the exposure and white balance settings -- these are never altered.

When you process the file in ACR the first time, there are no custom user settings. You see the image processed using the Camera Raw Defaults. If you look at the menu settings dialog, you'll see "Camera Raw Defaults" checked.

When you make changes to the image in ACR, you are processing the image with a set of custom settings. If you look at the menu settings dialog, you'll see "Custom Settings" checked. If you subsequently save the changes, the custom settings are also stored as metadata.

When you reopen the processed raw file, ACR recognizes that custom user settings are present and uses them to process and display the image. If you look at the menu settings dialog, you'll see "Image Settings" checked.

The menu settings options are not just informational. They can be used to change the current settings. If "Image Settings", for example, is checked and you select "Camera Raw Defaults", the current settings will be changed to the camera raw defaults and you will see the image as it was originally opened with no user settings. If you select "Image Settings" in the menu settings dialog you will change the current settings to ones present when the file was opened in this session including the user settings. If you've made changes in this session and the menu settings shows "Custom Settings" checked, you need to be careful. If you change the setting, the custom settings will be temporarily stored in memory and you will be able to select "Custom Settings" to restore them. But, only one set of custom settings is retained. If you change to another setting, say Camera Raw Defaults for example, and then modify a setting, the stored custom settings will be replaced and you won't be able to go back to the old ones.
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Re: ACR CS5 & DNG

Postby momoffduty » Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:25 pm

Thanks Bob for the menu settings info and to be careful of the Custom Settings. I am looking for a way to toggle the before and after. I understand the preview is for each panel and if I want to see all the previews to go to the presets panel in the first session. So, I can't bring in a dng file and take a snap as a starting point? If not, I really don't want to duplicate the edited dng file and clear the develop settings on one file just to have a starting reference point. The RAW file is large in itself then add a dng file and finally a jpeg.
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Re: ACR CS5 & DNG

Postby Bob » Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:06 pm

Yes, ACR does allow you to take snapshots and they are saved in the metadata across sessions until you explicitly delete them. I know I said ACR didn't have snapshots earlier, I confused myself -- call it a senior moment -- I'm not sure what I was thinking. :oops:

ACR snapshots aren't embedded images, they are the settings used to produce that image. So, they typically don't take much space. Again, they are saved in the metadata. And, you don't need to convert your raw file to DNG.

When you select a snapshot, you apply the settings stored in the snapshot. The same thing that happens when you select "Image Settings", "Camera Raw Defaults", or "custom Settings". Snapshots simply allow more image states to be saved.

Preview works well when you're comparing changes made in the same session to the image as opened. If you want to compare with the image as originally opened in the first session, you can select "Camera Raw Defaults" and "Custom" to toggle back and forth between the current and original image. You don't need to make a snapshot of the original image as it is identical to the "Camera Raw Defaults". If you want to go back and try other setting changes, be sure to take a snapshot of the current settings first if you want to be able to go back to them later.

Clicking "Done" saves the metadata without sending the image to Photoshop for processing. When you want to send the image to Photoshop, there are two ways to do it. "Open Image" sends the image to Photoshop as a standard image using the settings specified in the workflow options. "Open Object" sends information to Photoshop to allow it to create a smart object. Pressing the shift key will toggle between the two "Open" options.

Open Image severs the link between ACR and the rendered layer in Photoshop. If decide at a later time that you need to make further adjustments to the raw image, those changes don't propagate to the Photoshop file. If you use Open Object, that layer is a smart object and you can double click on it to reenter ACR and make changes. When you exit ACR, the changes will automatically be incorporated in the layer. Another useful thing you can do when it's a smart object is that you can right click on it and select "New Smart Object via Copy" to create an independent copy of the smart object. When you do that, you can go back to ACR and use different settings in each smart object. You can then mask and blend the two layers as desired. That's one way to extend the dynamic range of the image, for example.
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Re: ACR CS5 & DNG

Postby momoffduty » Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:37 pm

Thank you Bob, thank you! I've watched tuts on ACR and perused the Help and google search, but as usual you pull it all together in a nutshell. I hadn't gotten that far in thinking about Smart Object in PS and blend modes, but I can see a big advantage for certain projects. I'll create yet another cheat sheet from your post. May have a book one day. ;)

As for the DNG, Adobe did their last update for CS5 awhile back and my CR2 file isn't recognized. I would have to upgrade to CS7. Another step in the process, but only takes a few minutes.

Senior moments are okay...I have them often. :-D
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Re: ACR CS5 & DNG

Postby VernonRobinson » Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:56 pm

Cheryl,
To add to the excellent explanation Bob provided, don't forget that there is a Preview button in ACR. It is kind of hidden in plain site. I am using CS4, but I doubt that it has changed. Take a look in the upper left corner of the screen grab.

ACR_Preview.JPG


Regards,
-Vernon
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Re: ACR CS5 & DNG

Postby momoffduty » Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:45 am

Thanks Vernon for the screen shot. :-D From what I understand (limited), the preview button is only for that panel during the current session. It is helpful. I think once I get a handle on ACR that I won't be going back and forth making changes and changing yet again.
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