TECHNICAL QUESTION

[dalelpaq]

This is probably more of a computer question than an AE question, but it is clearly inspired by AE! I am running CS3 on a Dell XPS 720 which has an Intell Core 2 Quad CPU at 2.4 GHz, 4 GB RAM and a GeForce 8800 GT video card. CS3 runs pretty well on it, but can certainly bog down on big projects and renders. I would like to "soup up" my PC and am looking at some options. The first problem is that the next version of AE (CS5) will be a 64-bit native program (no one knows when it will come out). New PC time? Options I'm looking at to squeeze more out of what I have are: stay with CS4 but replace the processor or motherboard with a bigger badder faster one; upgrade to Win 7 64-bit and suffer the consequences on any 32-bit software I'm using if 64-bit drivers aren't available (this would allow a ton more RAM), or adding a second HDD and installing Win-7 64 bit there and run the system in a dual boot configuration.

I know there will be a lot of little subtleties in all this that will complicate it to pieces, but in terms of a general overview, does anyone have the computer background to sort through these kinds of issues in preparation for CS5?

All ideas and thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks, Dale

[John 'twosheds' McDonald]

My computer specs are in my signature - looks like something similar to yours(?).

I migrated from XP to Win 7 64 bit a couple of months ago. The only bit of software that I had that won't run under the 64 bit OS is DVD43. Everything else is fine.

My migration strategy was to firstly back up my system drive, then to set up a dual boot XP/Win 7 system. Because there is no upgrade path from XP to Win 7 it has to be a clean install. Then I migrated all of the applications software, knowing that I always had an operational XP system to go back to.

After completing the migration and using Win 7 for two or three weeks and finding no problems I removed the XP partition.

Note that in my case I have absolutely no data on my system C: drive, only the opsys and Windows files, page files etc. If you have any data on your C: drive you'll obviously need to either back it up or move it. My HDD config is:

C: 150Gb Raptor for the opsys etc.,
D: 500Gb for all data - Word docs, photo files etc. and
E: 1Gb video work drive, projects in progress, video files etc.

There's a bit more info here

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6935

[Bob]

does anyone have the computer background to sort through these kinds of issues in preparation for CS5?

I think you'll find a number of us here with the necessary computer background and experience.

I had a similar situation. My computer is a DIY home brew rather than a brand name, but I was running AE CS3 on a Quad Q6600 with 4GB RAM on Vista 32-bit. AE CS3 is a 32-bit application but according to Adobe is optimized with 64-bit in mind. It can also spawn off multiple processes to perform parallel rendering (that uses a lot of memory, you really should have at least 2GB per cpu core and a 64-bit system). I also have Photoshop CS4 which supports both 32-bit and 64-bit native execution. I plan on upgrading to CS5 when it becomes available, which should be soon.

Although I could have done an upgrade in place over Vista, I installed a new drive in my system and did a clean install so I could keep my Vista system intact. I've had few problems -- no 64 bit driver for my scanner (but, I found a 3rd party scanner program that includes a 64-bit driver that supports my scanner), an old 16-bit dos utility no longer works, and one program that I didn't use much anymore is an older version that isn't compatible. I also needed to flash the bios to get support for larger RAM sticks when I upgraded to 8GB. Other than that, it's been smooth sailing and I haven't had a need to boot into Vista in over 10 weeks. I've been very happy with Win 7 64-bit.

Your Geforce 8800 video card should be fine. If you decide to migrate to Windows 7 64-bit on that machine, do your homework, run the upgrade advisor (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/get/upgrade-advisor.aspx), and check your vendors for availability of 64-bit drivers.

If you have any specific concerns or just want to bounce some ideas around, just ask.

[dalelpaq]

Thanks all, your comments make me a little more optimistic. That said, apparently, the Dell XPS720 is limited to 8 G RAM - no matter what OS. I'm told even 8 G RAM should show substantial performance improvement. I'm not sure why the XPS720 is limited to 8 G, is it a physical limitation of the motherboard (no more physical room) or is it something else? This one still has me perplexed. That said, I'm tending towards a dual boot system - though I'm still deciding between a new partition on the C drive or a second HDD - they are cheap enough and perhaps a safer bet? I'm willing to fork out for a new motherboard if that would allow a more powerful processor with more than 8 G RAM, but will have to first hunt one down, check out space in the tower, consider power availability and cooling, etc.

How do you migrate programs from one operating system to another? And what about all those indecipherable background processes that seem to always be running? (I periodically go through and try to clean them out, but there's always a bunch.)

Dale

[John 'twosheds' McDonald]

How do you migrate programs from one operating system to another?

You have to do a re-install I'm afraid.

[Bobby]

The 8GB sounds like a motherboard limitation to me. All those address bit lines take up a lot of traces (wires) on the board.

You may not be able to get a motherboard that fits your case - Dell systems are often unique in that regard, but cases are fairly inexpensive and you might be able to put a new MB in a new case and just transfer the other hardware.

You generally have to reinstall a program on each instance of an OS. You can't just copy some files. There are migration programs that claim to do it but I never trusted them, and never between different OS versions. Just my $.02.

[Bob]

Yes, it's a motherboard limitation. The XPS 720 has 4 ddr2 dimm slots. It's most likely that your current 4GB consists of four 1GB dimms. To go to 8 GB you would need to replace them with four 2GB dimms. If you do that, be sure to get memory that is compatible with your motherboard. You should be able to get the specs from the dell support site.

Only the 64 bit OS can use all 8GB, if you boot into your existing 32-bit system it will only use 4GB of that. But, it should run fine. You will probably be fine with 8GB. I wouldn't replace the motherboard just to get additional memory. It's unlikely memory will be your bottleneck. Rendering is a cpu intensive process and you will need a faster processor if you expect to improve your render times substantially. If that's what you want, it's probably better to go with a newer system and take advantage of the improvements in processors and chipsets.

You will need to reinstall your software when you go to Windows 7 64-bit.

[dalelpaq]

It's been a while since I asked the question in this string and all of the answers were very helpful. I have, I think, two more. CS5 is out and it looks like the way to fly! So, I plan to install a brand new 500G internal drive, do a clean install of Win-7 Pro 64-bit, and then install CS5 (on the ne drive, of course). Over time, I will migrate what I can from XP to 7. The Win 7 pro version has an XP emulator to handle what I can't migrate. The Win 7 adviser from MS says I'm ready to do this. So, here are the 2 questions: (1) I'm assuming I should partition the new HDD putting the OS in the first partition and the software in the other - or does the first partition handle both the OS and the apps and the second partition the various files, etc.? (2) Apparently, I can purchase either a "fully licensed" version of 7 or, for half the price, an OEM version. I'm told by major vendors that the OEM version is fully functional and the way to go. Miscellaneous writers on the internet say that it's "restrictive license" makes it only usable on one PC. They suggest that if the motherboard is ever replaced or if there is an attempt to reinstall the OS on a replacement PC that it won't work. I'm trying to sort this out. If, in fact, the writers are correct, then a new motherboard or PC would require a new copy of 7. But, since the OEM version is half the price, if it had to be purchased again - no loss. Any geeks out there have a definitive opinion? Thanks, Dale

[John 'twosheds' McDonald]

Hi Dale. This is my understanding

(1) I'm assuming I should partition the new HDD putting the OS in the first partition and the software in the other - or does the first partition handle both the OS and the apps and the second partition the various files, etc.?

No need to partition the disc. The OS and programs will automatically be placed in the same partition.

(2) Apparently, I can purchase either a "fully licensed" version of 7 or, for half the price, an OEM version. I'm told by major vendors that the OEM version is fully functional and the way to go. Miscellaneous writers on the internet say that it's "restrictive license" makes it only usable on one PC. They suggest that if the motherboard is ever replaced or if there is an attempt to reinstall the OS on a replacement PC that it won't work. I'm trying to sort this out. If, in fact, the writers are correct, then a new motherboard or PC would require a new copy of 7. But, since the OEM version is half the price, if it had to be purchased again - no loss.

I buy all my opsys software as OEM. (This next bit is where I may be wrong ). If the mobo (for example) needs to be replaced and it is replaced by the same model then the opsys licence stays valid - things can and do break. However, if a completely different mobo, even from the same manufacturer, is installed then that is deemed a new machine so the licence will be void.

[Bob]

You've brought up several issues.

First, with regard to Windows XP, there are two ways to run XP applications under Windows 7. The first is by simply setting the compatibility setting for the application to XP -- this will work well for a large number of applications. The other is to install XP Mode and run the application under that. XP Mode is a version of Windows XP that runs as a virtual guest under Windows 7. Compatility mode simply emulates the Windows XP environment while XP Mode actually is Windows XP. That doesn't mean that every Windows XP program will run under XP Mode, since it is virtualized it has no direct access to the hardware and some capabilities will simply not be there or won't work correctly. XP Mode was designed for commercial business environments, not consumer environments. It will not be satisfactory for running games or other applications that need those hardware capabilities.

The OEM OS releases are exactly the same as the Commercial releases. The difference is in the licensing terms and the key. OEM versions are intended to be installed by system builders and sold to end users. The licensing terms provide that the OEM builder provide the end user support and not Microsoft and that the license is to a particular PC. With the commercial license, you can call Microsoft for problem support and you can install the same license key when you upgrade the motherboard or trash the old PC and build another. With the OEM license, you can't do that. It is possible to change the motherboard with an OEM license, but you will need to contact Microsoft to authorize the activation and convince them that the motherboard change was a replacement for one that failed. You might have problems doing so if you've changed to a significantly different motherboard/cpu.

I would not recommend partitioning the drive that way. That made some sense when drives were very expensive and the file system was not designed to handle large capacity drives, but that's not the case any more. It is a good idea to separate the OS and applications from the data, but doing so on the same physical drive is not the best way to do so. If the drive fails, you lose both partitions, and you haven't done anything to help performance. It's much better to place the OS and applications on one physical drive and the data on a separate physical drive.

[dalelpaq]

Thanks, I understand. I bought the book and know a lot more today than when I began this odyssey. Step one is to install more RAM as well as a new HDD (for a clean install of Win 7) . This way, the OEM version will map to my final configuration. If I ever have to upgrade the MB or when I purchase a follow-on computer, I'll need another copy of Win 7. But, at half the price of a retail version, nothing lost.

I never did ask the two big questions! Will PE (I have 4 at the moment) and AE CS3 run in 64 bits? If these do run in 64 bits, can they take advantage of the additional RAM (it'll be 8 G when I'm done)?

Regardless, once I have as much running as I can (or need), I hope to take the plunge and upgrade to the full CS5 production premium. Dale

[Bob]

Will PE (I have 4 at the moment) and AE CS3 run in 64 bits?

Yes, they will run in 64-bit Windows 7. But, as 32-bit applications, not 64-bit applications.

...can they take advantage of the additional RAM (it'll be 8 G when I'm done)?

PE and AE CS3 are both 32-bit applications. 32-bit applications can only address 4GB of virtual memory and not all of that is available for use by the application. In Windows XP, the application was normally restricted to 2GB with the remainder used by the OS. In Windows 7 64-bit, 32-bit applications can use 3GB. 64-bit applications can, of course, use much more memory. I have 8GB installed and, for comparison, Photoshop CS4 32-bit has 3255MB (3.18GB) available while Photoshop CS4 64-bit has 7221MB (7.05GB) available. AE CS5 and Premiere Pro CS5 are 64-bit applicatons.

Don't confuse RAM with virtual memory. RAM is the physical memory that you installed -- only the OS can see and use that directly. Virtual memory is what applications see and use, and that is a mapping between RAM and disk space. Virtual memory is placed in RAM by the OS when it's needed and in the system swap file when it isn't. The entire system will benefit from your 8GB RAM.