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How do I process this video? (all efforts are failing)

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How do I process this video? (all efforts are failing)

Postby ChancyRat » Sat Jul 24, 2010 10:14 pm

I may have just wasted 2 days of editing by selecting the wrong pre-set, but I'm hoping the problem is in the after rendering period, of choosing the right format to process.

I have .mp4 video files, and .mp3 and .wav files in this video. I usually work with Sony camcorder AVCHD 1920 x 1080, .m2ts files, but have also imported low def. avi files (using only avi in one video) from a friend's digital camera, into the same preset I use for the AVCHD type. So, I fell into the habit of always using the same preset because I would open the most recent project and edit from there no matter what kind of file formats I had. That never caused a problem with processing the final video of any file type (as far as I can tell).

Now these .mp4 files are from a Sony digital camera. They are HD 1280 x 720 30i.

As usual, I used a prior .prel project. I believe that would be:
NTSC-AVCHD-Full HD 1080i 30.
I'm not entirely sure, though. This is what shows as the default choice if I click new project, but the real question is what is the preset I've been working with and it's been so long, I don't know, or don't know how to tell when the .prel is open.

If I ought to be able to process this video, then with what processing preset? I have tried a hodge-podge, and it's not worth my trying to reconstruct them as I won't remember accurately. The results have been .m2t files, which do not play on anything (Real Player, DivX, or the Sony video managing software). Renaming them .mpg, .mp2, or mp4, does not result in a playable file either. (I tried that last because renaming the .mts file to mp4 does work for AVCHD).

Please please tell me the problem isn't with the original pre-set and that I've lost all the work because it can't be transferred to a different pre-set. Please tell me it's just that I have to choose x,y processing presets. Please please. :sad5:
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Re: How do I process this video? (all efforts are failing)

Postby Bobby » Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:21 am

ChancyRat, I think there are two issues here, and we need more information.

I think I understand that you want to create a project with a mix of input files, and the question there is what preset to use for the project.

But what I don't have a good handle on from your post is what your desired output is? What do you intend to do with your result - DVD, BluRay, AVCHD disc, upload to a service such as YouTube or Vimeo, play on an iPod, etc.????? What are you trying to accomplish with your project?

Thanks...
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Re: How do I process this video? (all efforts are failing)

Postby Steve Grisetti » Sun Jul 25, 2010 8:34 am

My suggestion would be to get all of those videos into the same format before I mixed them in the same project, Chancy.

Assuming that you want them in DVD form (since you're mixing hi-def and standard-def) I'd recommend you convert them all to DV-AVIs.
http://forums.adobe.com/thread/415317?tstart=0

Version 7 won't likely be able to work with that .mp4 file in its native form. You can convert it to a DV-AVI using Super or Quicktime Pro.

Load the AVCHD footage into a Premiere Elements project and then use Share/Personal Computer/DV-AVI to output it.

Finally, open a project set up for DV footage and mix those DV-AVIs together. Should work smooth as a gravy sandwich!
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Re: How do I process this video? (all efforts are failing)

Postby ChancyRat » Sun Jul 25, 2010 8:57 am

I'm sorry, I'm not understanding the suggestions. :sad5: :sad5:
Let me just ask what feels like the core question...
I used this pre-set: NTSC-AVCHD-Full HD 1080i 30
to process .mp4, .mp3, and .wav (also titles) clips.
All the editing is done.
Can I now export the video so that it works? What settings?
(I'm not so concerned about pristine HD quality at this point, just bare-bone survival.)

Add: I upload the videos to Smugmug and YouTube, fyi.
Edit: I don't mean to not respond to all the suggestions - I'm grateful for them - I just need to get to them via the critical problem first.
Edit: I see mp4 is a format allowed in PE7, so I'm assuming that is not the issue.

Edit: I can handle the awful truth if it is that. Please tell me. :sad5: :sad5:
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Re: How do I process this video? (all efforts are failing)

Postby Steve Grisetti » Sun Jul 25, 2010 3:54 pm

Boy, I really missed the boat with my answer, didn't I, Chancy?

My concern with with MP4s -- which 90% of the time cause problems for Premiere Elements. If you're one of the lucky 10% that they load and work for, consider yourself blessed and be happy.

As for loading video to SmugMug and YouTube, here are the best settings we've found:
http://forums.adobe.com/thread/623549?tstart=0

SmugMug is probably not as ruthless about re-encode and downsampling your files as YouTube is, so it will likely give you much better quality. They may even let you post your file as-is (The way Muvipix does for FREE!).
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Re: How do I process this video? (all efforts are failing)

Postby ChancyRat » Sun Jul 25, 2010 4:01 pm

Steve Grisetti wrote:Boy, I really missed the boat with my answer, didn't I, Chancy?

My concern with with MP4s -- which 90% of the time cause problems for Premiere Elements. If you're one of the lucky 10% that they load and work for, consider yourself blessed and be happy.

As for loading video to SmugMug and YouTube, here are the best settings we've found:
http://forums.adobe.com/thread/623549?tstart=0

SmugMug is probably not as ruthless about re-encode and downsampling your files as YouTube is, so it will likely give you much better quality. They may even let you post your file as-is (The way Muvipix does for FREE!).


I'm still not understand a thing here. :(
Are you saying the pre-set of NTSC-AVCHD-Full HD 1080i 30
will work
to process .mp4, .mp3, and .wav (also titles) clips.

Can I now export the video so that it works? What settings?

Another way to state the problem is that in the efforts I made, I get .m2t files.
I cannot play them on any player (Real Player, DivX, or the Sony PMB).
How do I play them?

I'm at a loss.
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Re: How do I process this video? (all efforts are failing)

Postby Steve Grisetti » Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:27 pm

Now I see why I was confused. You're asking two questions at once, Chancy!

The second question is easy, and that's the one I answered above: What settings to use to export your video for the Web.

The first question is the tougher one: What project setting to use for MP4 footage from that Sony digital cam. The reason it's tougher is that the answer is there is NO setting that will likely work with that footage.

As I said above, version 8 does include a hybrid setting that sometimes works with 1280x720 footage -- but I don't believe version 7 has one at all. If it's AVCHD footage, it's likely something called AVCHD Lite, which is an iffy proposition in Premiere Elements -- particularly in versions before version 8.

As I said above, the smartest move is to use Super or Quicktime Pro to convert that footage to DV-AVIs and then edit it in a project set up for standard DV. It won't be a high-def project any more -- but it will still give you very good results at standard definition.

The other option is to try what you are trying -- to use the closest preset to your footage you can find and hope for the best. This sometimes works. Sometimes. But you'll have to check to see if it works for you in this particular case.

If you do decide to do the latter, try using the HDV project preset. And do a test run before you put too much work into it to see if it's going to work for you.
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Re: How do I process this video? (all efforts are failing)

Postby ChancyRat » Sun Jul 25, 2010 7:32 pm

Steve Grisetti wrote:Now I see why I was confused. You're asking two questions at once, Chancy!

The second question is easy, and that's the one I answered above: What settings to use to export your video for the Web.

The first question is the tougher one: What project setting to use for MP4 footage from that Sony digital cam. The reason it's tougher is that the answer is there is NO setting that will likely work with that footage.

As I said above, version 8 does include a hybrid setting that sometimes works with 1280x720 footage -- but I don't believe version 7 has one at all. If it's AVCHD footage, it's likely something called AVCHD Lite, which is an iffy proposition in Premiere Elements -- particularly in versions before version 8.

As I said above, the smartest move is to use Super or Quicktime Pro to convert that footage to DV-AVIs and then edit it in a project set up for standard DV. It won't be a high-def project any more -- but it will still give you very good results at standard definition.

The other option is to try what you are trying -- to use the closest preset to your footage you can find and hope for the best. This sometimes works. Sometimes. But you'll have to check to see if it works for you in this particular case.

If you do decide to do the latter, try using the HDV project preset. And do a test run before you put too much work into it to see if it's going to work for you.


To my profound relief, I was able to convert to an avi file using that link instructions you provided, and smugmug is uploading it now.
image081 image120 image115 image140 img0293 img0331

To my shock this 3 minute nothing file is over 700 MB, luckily for me Smugmug recently upped their file size limit to 1GB. Any idea why the file is ridiculously large? For an equivalent AVCHD file I normally see something along 250-300 MB.

Groping in the dark here for common terminology...
There are 2 presets phases, right, the Open new project pre-set, and then the export-when-you're-done pre-set.
I have already used NTSC-AVCHD-Full HD 1080i 30 for the first. (That is not the HDV you mentioned, right?)
That pre-set is the one that worked for the mp4 format (plus mp3, titles, .wav - but no other video formats). I was able to play it on real player.
For people who are having problems with the mp4 file formats, does using the NTSC-AVCHD-Full HD 1080i 30 mean anything useful? (Like, maybe everyone should use it if they are having problems with .mp4 formats?)

Smugmug accepts .avi files so I did not do the extra step of converting to wmv with moviemaker. Youtube also accepts .avi. Why do the helpful tips include that 2nd phase? Does it affect the quality?

Thanks, you saved me sooooo much time. :yh:
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Re: How do I process this video? (all efforts are failing)

Postby RJ Johnston » Sun Jul 25, 2010 7:45 pm

Despite what project preset you use, you can export to any of the output formats that Premiere Elements supports. You're suppose to pick an output format that your player supports. Premiere Elements doesn't support the RealPlayer, or DivX formats. You would have to use a converter application to convert from, say, DV-AVI that came from Premiere Elements, to RealPlayer format.

I don't see the reason to use NTSC-AVCHD-Full HD 1080i 30 when none of your clips are at that resolution or format. All I know from what you've posted is the clips with the highest resolution that you have are 1280 x 720. If you are going to put mixed formats in the same project then I would try the NTSC-HDV-720P 30 preset. But you are better off doing as Steve suggests.
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Re: How do I process this video? (all efforts are failing)

Postby Bobby » Sun Jul 25, 2010 9:15 pm

60 minutes of AVI runs about 15-20GB. Get used to large files...
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Re: How do I process this video? (all efforts are failing)

Postby ChancyRat » Mon Jul 26, 2010 3:01 pm

RJ Johnston wrote:Despite what project preset you use, you can export to any of the output formats that Premiere Elements supports. You're suppose to pick an output format that your player supports. Premiere Elements doesn't support the RealPlayer, or DivX formats. You would have to use a converter application to convert from, say, DV-AVI that came from Premiere Elements, to RealPlayer format.

I don't see the reason to use NTSC-AVCHD-Full HD 1080i 30 when none of your clips are at that resolution or format. All I know from what you've posted is the clips with the highest resolution that you have are 1280 x 720. If you are going to put mixed formats in the same project then I would try the NTSC-HDV-720P 30 preset. But you are better off doing as Steve suggests.


FROM STEVE - As I said above, the smartest move is to use Super or Quicktime Pro to convert that footage to DV-AVIs and then edit it in a project set up for standard DV. It won't be a high-def project any more -- but it will still give you very good results at standard definition.... The other option is to try what you are trying -- to use the closest preset to your footage you can find and hope for the best. This sometimes works. Sometimes. But you'll have to check to see if it works for you in this particular case.


I needed to wait to confirm the file would upload to SmugMug (I'm having problems with that process too. LOL My modem may be gonzo.) After 100 tries, one success.

Now I hope to understand what the ell happened in this mess so that I can stuff a pillow between me and ](*,) image069

- Why did the project pre-set for NTSC-AVCHD-Full HD 1080i 30 work for mp4 formats - in other words, for formats that are not AVCHD??? (I had only chosen that because I used a recent prel for another project and edited from there, forgetting that the earlier project used AVCHD but this one would not.)

- I don't understand what you mean by "Premiere Elements doesn't support the RealPlayer, or DivX formats."
I have only ever really exported to 264 HD because I'm using mostly AVCHD HD .m2ts files and that output is .m2t which I manually rename to .mp4 (you folks taught me that trick), and then DivX can play it. (As can Smugmug.) And the avi I got out of this current video played on Real Player.

- Did the avi file I produced, result in HD quality? (as the mp4 is an HD type)?

Thanks, I'm so grateful I was able to save the file. image139 image172
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Re: How do I process this video? (all efforts are failing)

Postby ChancyRat » Mon Jul 26, 2010 3:08 pm

Bobby wrote:60 minutes of AVI runs about 15-20GB. Get used to large files...


Thanks. I'm so used to the .264 AVCHD giving me 10 minutes on 600 MB!!!
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Re: How do I process this video? (all efforts are failing)

Postby RJ Johnston » Mon Jul 26, 2010 3:21 pm

Premiere Elements doesn't produce DivX certified video, although it can produce video that can be played in the DivX or RealPlayer players. DivX has it's own official specifications. RealPlayer has it's own proprietary video/audio format which Premiere Elements doesn't support for export.
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Re: How do I process this video? (all efforts are failing)

Postby Bob » Mon Jul 26, 2010 3:39 pm

Why did the project pre-set for NTSC-AVCHD-Full HD 1080i 30 work for mp4 formats


The project preset establishes the characteristics of your project. That is, it establishes what your frame size is, what your pixel aspect ratio is, what your frame rate is, what your field order is, and so forth. It doesn't mean that you can't use footage in your project that doesn't match that. You certainly can, and PrE will attempt to use it. But, there are implications you need to take into account.

First, consider the clip size vs the project frame size. The default for PrE is to scale clips to frame size. If you have a high def project, 1920x1080 for example, and you add a Standard Def avi file to the project, the avi clip will be scaled to 1920x1080 which will make it look soft and pixelated. It's much better to turn scale to frame size off and either use it like a picture in picture overlay or place it over a background image. Another thing to watch out for is the field order of the clips. The project field order for that high def project will be upper field first while the standard def avi will be bottom field first. PrE won't switch the field order for you, you need to manually reverse the field order of the avi clip.

The standard rule of thumb is to use a project preset that matches the footage. That's pretty clear when you only have one type of clip. If you are mixing different types of footage in the same project, you need to decide what your project format should be based on the types of clips and the purpose, and then make the necessary accomodations (such as setting the proper field order) for each clip that differs from the project format. If you aren't sure what needs to be done, the safest course is to, as Steve suggests, convert those clips to a common format and use that.
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Re: How do I process this video? (all efforts are failing)

Postby ChancyRat » Sun Aug 01, 2010 3:04 pm

Bob wrote:
Why did the project pre-set for NTSC-AVCHD-Full HD 1080i 30 work for mp4 formats


The project preset establishes the characteristics of your project. That is, it establishes what your frame size is, what your pixel aspect ratio is, what your frame rate is, what your field order is, and so forth. It doesn't mean that you can't use footage in your project that doesn't match that. You certainly can, and PrE will attempt to use it. But, there are implications you need to take into account.

First, consider the clip size vs the project frame size. The default for PrE is to scale clips to frame size. If you have a high def project, 1920x1080 for example, and you add a Standard Def avi file to the project, the avi clip will be scaled to 1920x1080 which will make it look soft and pixelated. It's much better to turn scale to frame size off and either use it like a picture in picture overlay or place it over a background image. Another thing to watch out for is the field order of the clips. The project field order for that high def project will be upper field first while the standard def avi will be bottom field first. PrE won't switch the field order for you, you need to manually reverse the field order of the avi clip.

The standard rule of thumb is to use a project preset that matches the footage. That's pretty clear when you only have one type of clip. If you are mixing different types of footage in the same project, you need to decide what your project format should be based on the types of clips and the purpose, and then make the necessary accomodations (such as setting the proper field order) for each clip that differs from the project format. If you aren't sure what needs to be done, the safest course is to, as Steve suggests, convert those clips to a common format and use that.


I am struggling with this. What are you referring to when you say "upper field" and "bottom field"? Is that the tracks? Top and bottom tracks? Where 1 is bottom and higher is top?
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