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Seeing red?

Specific to Premiere Elements Version 7.

Re: Seeing red?

Postby peggig » Thu Oct 06, 2011 3:11 pm

Steve Grisetti wrote:Can you confirm that this is tape-based video and that used Premiere Elements to capture it over a FireWire connection? We need to eliminate some variables.

Yes, this is tape-based video, from a Canon HV40, captured over a FireWire connection, but I used HDVSplit to capture it. Capturing with Premiere Elements is impractical because it doesn't split scenes, and I'd have to capture a full hour of tape for every clip.

Steve Grisetti wrote:Which graphics card to you have? Have you gone to the ATI or nVidia site and ensured you have the latest driver for it?

My graphics card is an NVidia GE Force 9500 GT, and I have the most recent driver installed.

Steve Grisetti wrote:Finally, what operating system are you on? You're not using the 64-bit version of Windows 7, are you?

Yes, I am using the 64-bit version of Windows 7. Is that a problem? I hesitated to upgrade because I had heard initially that Premiere Elements wouldn't run on 64-bit systems. Based on recommendations on this forum, though, I finally decided to go ahead and upgrade and, so far, I've been delighted with the results. All the numerous issues with which I'd been struggling ever since I started editing in high definition were miraculously resolved. I assume it's because of the extended memory utilization in 64-bit Windows. High definition editing had been a painfully onerous chore before I upgraded, and it suddenly became a breeze. It was fun to edit video again! My only regret has been that and I hadn't upgraded to 64-bit when I first bought my high-def camera.

But this issue with the red frames is something I've never encountered before. Though it happens infrequently, in this case, it has become a blocking issue for me. I hope you're not going to say the only solution is to go back to a 32-bit OS. Please tell me this is not the case! :-8
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Re: Seeing red?

Postby Steve Grisetti » Thu Oct 06, 2011 3:25 pm

There can be an issue with the default FireWire driver Windows 7 64-bit installs.

Open your Control Panel and (making sure it's set to display icons rather than categories) open the Device Manager.

Locate the IEEE-1394 listing, right-click and select Properties. On the Driver tab, select the option to install the Legacy Driver.

Then try to capture even a brief segment using Premiere Elements. This should get rid of your problems.
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Re: Seeing red?

Postby Chuck Engels » Thu Oct 06, 2011 3:36 pm

If I'm not mistaken the entire capture isn't red frames, just a few frames out of the entire capture isn't that correct?

I Don't think this is a driver issue considering I have had the same problems and it is definitely not a driver issue for me. My red frame issue is also from files captured from a HV40.

In my case it was definitely bad tape but I never tried just playing the files in a media player. It is very possible that the conversion method will work as it has worked for many others from what I have read.
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Re: Seeing red?

Postby peggig » Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:50 pm

Chuck Engels wrote:Most of the solutions recommend converting the file to something else and the red frames will go away. You can try converting to H.264 or maybe even just converting back to MPEG will do the trick.

Bingo! Converting it to H.264 seems to have done the trick!

I didn't think it was a capture problem, because it rendered without any problem in the PRE7 subproject I originally imported it into. The issue only occurred after I exported the PRE7 subproject to MPEG and then imported that MPEG into the PRE7 master project. So it didn't seem like a problem with the original tape or capture, but rather with the PRE7 MPEG encoding. That appears to have been the case.

On the other hand, I thought it was fixed last night, only to open the master project again today and find the red frames were still there. (Though I suspect I was just looking in the wrong place.) So I'll know for sure tomorrow, but I do believe that fixed the problem! Thank you again, Steve!

And thank you, Chuck and Dave for being so helpful, too. I think I'm on track again! :-D
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Re: Seeing red?

Postby Steve Grisetti » Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:03 am

Well, I'm still not convinced we've gotten to the bottom of the problem. But if you're happy, we're happy, Peg!
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Re: Seeing red?

Postby Chuck Engels » Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:05 am

I would be interested in what the MPEG settings were when you exported from PRE7.
If you are going to use the video in another project exporting MPEG may not be the best as it is a compressed format and not really made for editing, especially when you are converting from MPEG to MPEG after editing.

The people that I do a lot of editing work for have me export using the Apple Animation codec as it has very low compression and is great for editing. The files are huge and they won't play in a video player on my computer but from what they tell me the files edit great and export to any format with excellent quality. Most of them use Final Cut and I think it works very well with that, I haven't had a need to use those files in Premiere yet.

Anyway, something in that export removed some vital information from some of the video frames, information that Premiere Elements was needing but wasn't there. Those are the only times I've seen the red frames only mine have come during a tape capture and the tape has been bad for some reason.

The only time I have ever exported to HD MPEG is to import into Encore DVD for authoring, other than that I haven't ever exported to that format. No problems when I have but then again I wasn't importing it into Premiere Elements for editing either.
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Re: Seeing red?

Postby peggig » Sun Oct 09, 2011 4:46 pm

Steve Grisetti wrote:Well, I'm still not convinced we've gotten to the bottom of the problem. But if you're happy, we're happy, Peg!

I'm convinced we haven't gotten to the bottem of the problem, and I'd really like to, but I don't know how. However, the workaround works, and I'm very happy for that!
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Re: Seeing red?

Postby peggig » Sun Oct 09, 2011 4:51 pm

Chuck Engels wrote:I would be interested in what the MPEG settings were when you exported from PRE7.

Chuck, I use MPEG2 1440 x 1080i 30, but with the Quality slider on the Advanced tab set to 5 (the highest quality setting).

Chuck Engels wrote:The people that I do a lot of editing work for have me export using the Apple Animation codec as it has very low compression and is great for editing.

Is there a preset for that in PRE7, or any way to create one? Does PRE7 have a codec for that?

Chuck Engels wrote:If you are going to use the video in another project exporting MPEG may not be the best as it is a compressed format and not really made for editing, especially when you are converting from MPEG to MPEG after editing.

What do you recommend for exporting HD video in PRE7 for the purpose of importing it into a PRE7 master project?
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Re: Seeing red?

Postby Chuck Engels » Sun Oct 09, 2011 5:48 pm

You can go into the advanced settings and select the Apple Animation codec when selecting any Quicktime preset.
It takes forever to export using that codec, and the files are HUGE, so I wouldn't recommend that one unless you need to export to a lot of different formats and want to start with something with very low compression as a master.

Since version 7 I haven't used the mini projects much anymore as the software seems to be able to handle large amounts of clips without problems. Version 10 is very good and I have no need to create several projects anymore, unlike the earlier versions. Just finished a video for the George Association of Water Professionals, 90 minute round table all shot with 2 DSLRs and separate audio for each of the 5 people involved. Lots of audio and lots of footage, Premiere Elements 10 handled it all perfectly and not one crash or problem of any kind. So the need to create smaller projects is pretty much a thing of the past in my opinion.

With that being said I don't see why it would be a problem to export m2t files, HD MPEG, for use in another project, but it seems that those are what you have had problems with. What export settings are you using?
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Re: Seeing red?

Postby peggig » Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:30 pm

Chuck Engels wrote:Since version 7 I haven't used the mini projects much anymore as the software seems to be able to handle large amounts of clips without problems.

I still have to use subprojects. Many of my subprojects are already at a point where they'll freeze up and I can't drag anything in the timeline until I shut down the project, delete the log file, and sometimes even reboot. Then I can usually edit again, but at that point, I know the project is pretty fragile and I either need to split it into two projects, or not do much more editing in it.

I do more post-processing than most reasonably sane people do. It's mostly brightness, contrast, saturation, and color correction, because I shoot in changing lighting conditions and I like to try to keep the lighting and colors as consistent as possible. Also, I do lots of audio adjustments, and use high and low pass filters (and I compulsively edit ums and ers out of voice-over narration). I also frequently speed up short portions of the video slightly, where I have a pan that's too slow, or I want to shorten up a long pause, or if something is just taking too long and I don't want to cut it completely but I don't want it to drag down the pace of the video. (And then I have to unlink the video from the audio so the audio doesn't sound speeded up.)

I realize that this degree of obsessiveness is probably uncalled for but it's just the way I am. If I was better at shooting, and knew how to get exposures just right, I'm sure I could spend less time editing. But, if I see a flaw, and know I can correct it, I just have to do it. So I spend a ridiculous amount of time editing, and have a ridiculous amount of edits in each project (or subproject). And that's undoubtedly why I still need to use subprojects. :-8

Chuck Engels wrote:What export settings are you using?

I use the MPEG2 1440 x 1080i 30 preset, but with the Quality slider on the Advanced tab set to 5. Is that what you're asking? Or is there some other place to specify export settings?
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Re: Seeing red?

Postby Chuck Engels » Sun Oct 09, 2011 10:53 pm

The freeze ups used to drive me absolutely crazy, that is why I am so excited about version 10 - they are gone (at least for me).
It would definitely be worth giving the demo a try and it may save you many headaches :)

Try exporting to the preset "HDTV 1080p 29.97 High Quality" and see if that helps.
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Re: Seeing red?

Postby peggig » Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:48 pm

Chuck Engels wrote:Try exporting to the preset "HDTV 1080p 29.97 High Quality" and see if that helps.

I don't see that preset in PRE7. Is that new in PRE10?

I'm almost finished with this project now, so I don't want to switch editing software in the middle of a project. I'll consider using PRE10 for my next one, though.

Would converting from interlaced to progressive and back to interlaced cause any loss of quality? It sounds like they have to drop some frames to convert from interlaced to progressive.
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Re: Seeing red?

Postby Chuck Engels » Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:29 am

The export/share preset is possibly new in version 10, don't have v9 here to check. Maybe Steve or someone else will pop in and let us know.

Actually it isn't frames that are gained or lost but fields. Changing frame rate would add or remove frames, like if you went from 60 frames per second down to 30 frames per second on an export.

Progressive uses upper and lower fields, interlaced only uses one or the other, so when you go from interlaced to progressive you add a field, when you got the other way you lose a field. Going back and forth between interlaced and progressive can definitely have an effect on the quality.
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Re: Seeing red?

Postby peggig » Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:29 pm

Thanks, Chuck. If you're starting with interlaced source material (1440 x 1080i 30), and ultimately outputting to an interlaced final format (like H.264), what would you recommend as the best interim format for exporting subprojects, to import into a master project, with the least loss of quality?
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Re: Seeing red?

Postby rfjg » Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:21 pm

peggig wrote:
Chuck Engels wrote:Try exporting to the preset "HDTV 1080p 29.97 High Quality" and see if that helps.

I don't see that preset in PRE7. Is that new in PRE10?


Yes, that preset is new to PRE10. Not in v7 or v9.
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