third hard drive-bigger power supply needed?

[Peru]

hp pavillion d4650y, Windows XP Media Center, 2Gb RAM, GE Force 7500LE 256Mb

I currently have two 500Gb internal hard drives installed: one with the operating system, programs, and data and one is for backups.

I read in one of these forums that for best performance it is good to have the operating system and programs on one drive and all the video files on another drive. I was thinking of adding a third internal drive (I have 6 SATA ports on the motherboard) for just "My Videos" data.

I have a powered usb port and most usb devices have their own power supplies.
Will I need to fit a larger power supply with the addition of another drive?

[Bob]

What is the rating of the power supply you currently have installed? If it's like other HP systems I have seen, it may be a 350W supply which would be considered marginal these days. Inadequate power supplies can cause a host of problems from instability to shortened component life. You *might* be able to add a third internal drive and get by with the existing power supply but you may want to consider replacing the existing supply with a larger capacity anyway.

Alternately, you might consider getting an external drive for your backups and use the second internal drive for your video work.

[John 'twosheds' McDonald]

If you need to upgrade the power supply this might give you an idea of cost (you will probably be able to find similar/better deals):-

http://www.compusa.com/applications/Sea ... T31848%20K

[Peru]

Thanks John and Bob for the info. Not the answer I was hoping to hear, but the one I expected to get.
I guess I will have to put in a bigger power supply.

If the connectors are the same, then just plug them in?
No need to worry about polarities or pinouts?

[kodebuster]

I read in one of these forums that for best performance it is good to have the operating system and programs on one drive and all the video files on another drive.

Assuming the hard drives are similiar in all respects, I'm trying to conceptualize in my mind how spliting the OS, Program, and Data files across two (2) drives would actually provivde a significant, observerable boost in performance.

My first response (without thinking much about it) would be splitting data in this matter has benefits in the area of organization, saftey and protection of data, and backup and restore scenarios.

But if you had similiar drives sitting off of one IDE or Sata connection scheme (master and slave), or off of the same SCSI buss, access to these drives is performed on a round robin basis, at the same transfer rate, with no means of prioritizing who talks first, or for how long. Everybody talks in turn, and can only say so much, within their given window of opportunity.

In a dual, or multiple I/O buss scheme, yes I can see some performace advantages (more spindles moving at the same time, transfering data across discreet I/O channels). But how many typical PC users are buying or setting up home systems with multiple I/O channels spanning multiple drives for the sole purpose of enhancing data transfer performance.

Also, Main Frame class machines have their OS and hardware built and tuned to specifically take avantage of these scenarios, I'm not even sure if XP or Vista can do this (they have enough trouble not blue screening under normal conditions).

Anyway, that's my thoughts along these lines, maybe someone can shed some additional light on this subject...

[Bob]

Peru: ATX power connectors are keyed -- they only fit one way. Match the connectors and you should be fine. You'll have several different types of connectors including a 2x12 (24pin) and 2x2 (4pin) motherboard connector, connectors for your legacy style components (e.g. ide drives etc.), Sata connectors, PCI-E connectors for video cards, fan connectors, and a power supply fan connector that can attach to the motherboard in systems that monitor or control the power supply fan -- check the documentation that comes with the new power supply. There may also be connectors from the power supply that are marked "fan only" if the power supply has a feature to thermostatically control the case fans (as mine does). Not all power supplies have the Sata and PCI-E connectors. If your system requires them, be sure to get a power supply that has them. Before you take out the old power supply, take a good look at the type and number of connectors. If you need some connection adapters, be sure to buy them before you start the swapout.

Regarding performance:

There is a benefit from separating the OS drive (boot drive) from the data drive containing your video files, projects, and project scratch files. The OS drive can have a lot of I/O activity going on relating to the system page files, the system cache files, and the dynamic loading of DLL file modules as required by the OS and executing programs. It's beneficial to keep your Premiere Elements I/O separate from that.

As for the master/slave issue, older systems that use IDE controllers generally contain two ide channels each of which can have two devices in a master/slave relationship. In that type of system you want the boot drive on one ide controller as master and the other drive on the second controller as a master. Place the DVD drive as a slave. With SATA drives, there is no master/slave relationship. The implementation details differ with the specific supporting chipset on the motherboard, but current chipsets generally implement separate SATA ports with independant DMA controllers accessing the system buss. Your chipset may vary, to paraphrase a well known saying

[Peru]

Thanks, Bob.

I'll take lots of pictures and notes to document what is connected where before I remove the old supply when I get the new one. And I guess I will need a larger UPS, too.

[kodebuster]

As for the master/slave issue, older systems that use IDE controllers generally contain two ide channels each of which can have two devices in a master/slave relationship. In that type of system you want the boot drive on one ide controller as master and the other drive on the second controller as a master. Place the DVD drive as a slave. With SATA drives, there is no master/slave relationship. The implementation details differ with the specific supporting chipset on the motherboard, but current chipsets generally implement separate SATA ports with independant DMA controllers accessing the system buss. Your chipset may vary, to paraphrase a well known saying

Bob, thanx for enlightening on the SATA port and drive topology. I was quite familiar with the IDE scenario as these have been around for some time, the SATA arrangement was a grey area.

I agree that splitting drives between the two IDE controllers with a Master for each drive is the best possible approach to enhance transfer rates.

Also the fact stated with regard to system OS swap space typically tied to the C-Drive, while keeping program scratch and workspace on a different drive makes the most sense with performace, backup/restore, and the safe keeping of data

[JohnnyO]

I have an 3 year old HP computer with a 300 Watt power supply. I have bee running with 2 250G Hard Drives, 2 optical drives, a TV Tuner card and an ATI X300 graphics adapter. I have not had any computer issues at all. In fact, my computer never crashes.

[Bob]

Depends on what's in the box. My current video card, for example, recommends using it on systems with a minimum of a 400W power supply, and it's a middle of the road card. Peru might very well be able to get by with a 350W power supply -- Adding another disk drive will probably add in the neighorhood of 25W to the existing load. Will that cause problems? Don't know -- how much leeway did HP build into system.

[Chuck Engels]

I'm still wondering what the original power supply is rated at?

Bob is right when he said

depends on how much leeway did HP build into system

If you already have a power supply that was built to handle what the machine was capable of, then you shouldn't need to replace it.

[Peru]

I'm still wondering what the original power supply is rated at?

Funny think, Chuck, of all the specs and features touted, there was no mention of what power supply would be in the machine. I did order it with only one hard drive, so they probably didn't put in a very powerful one. I'll see if I can find a rating on it when I open the case to make sure I have enough of the correct outputs on the new power supply I'm going to order.

[Peru]

Sure enough- it's a 350W supply.

And only 75W of it is on the +5V rails!

[JohnnyO]

If you do decide to upgrade your power supply, make sure you measure the old one, or at least measure the space where the power supply will be mointed in your chassis. You need to get one that will fit in your chassis. I don't know if it will be a perfect fit. I bet it will not be. You may end up having to drill extra holes in the chassis.
Also, the power supplies you get with HP machines are connected to a power button on the front or top of the chassis. Replacement supplies have the power button on the power supply. I'm not sure you will be able to connect the HP button to the replacement supply. This means you may need to reach around the back of the computer to turn it on.

[Bob]

Johnny makes a good point about the physical size issue.

I'm surprised about the hard power switch location. That sounds like the old days. Nowadays, it's standard to have a soft power off switch where the front panel switch connects to the motherboard. Since you seldom need a "hard" power off, that switch is on the back of the power supply. I haven't seen an old style unit since Pentium III days.

If Peru's HP is using that old type of design, he should double check the motherboard power connector, it may not be standard either. In which case, he may have to order an HP compatible power supply. I've seen exact replacement units, but I haven't noticed larger capacity units. Of course, I haven't been looking lately. It's been a couple of years since I last opened up an HP system.