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Microsoft's Final Attempt re WIN10

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Microsoft's Final Attempt re WIN10

Postby George Tyndall » Wed Jul 06, 2016 11:49 pm

https://www.yahoo.com/tech/microsoft-launches-one-last-upgrade-165235496.html

For a very interesting point of view, click the link and then scroll down to the comments section to read the post by Brian, who recounts his experiences since he began with MS-DOS.

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Re: Microsoft's Final Attempt re WIN10

Postby Chris B » Thu Jul 07, 2016 2:16 am

OK - Deep breath - Starting from the top

"Two years ago I built a Windows 7 powered HTPC that uses media center at the heart of it on my one machine, and with the lack of DVD software in Windows 10 makes the new OS completely worthless to me! "
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/hel ... dvd-player
"The Windows DVD Player app is available free for a limited time for people running Windows 7 Home Premium, Professional, Ultimate, Windows 8, or Windows 8.1 with Windows Media Center"
Not to mention VLC or many other options. Windows 10 drops windows media centre. That's why my HTPC is not being updated. There are other "media center" solutions out there.

"Then too consider that I have five other Windows 7 computers all running an assortment of different programs and configurations, and logically I just can't afford to upgrade to a new OS, then have to re buy all my hardware and software that is supported now by Windows 10!"
Windows 10 is only offered on machines that can support it. Given it's minimum requirements are somewhat lower than windows 7 you have to wonder what motley collection of devices this is that are not all eligible. There is very little software that isn't supported on Win10.

"<rant about money>" - Skipped.

"And before you think I am being a baby about it, my SSD Windows 7 machines load up just as fast as anything Windows 8, 8.1 or even Windows 10 so don't give me any grief about how much "faster" it is"
Um - my test windows 10 installation is significantly faster at boot than my windows 7 installation. They way it boots has been changed quite dramatically.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taakavJ0mDI

", just like the bologna about Windows 10 being more secure too! After all there is already a bunch of security problems documented on the internet about the edge browser having major security flaws in it!"
Major program has security flaws shocker. Edge is not perfect (by quite a long way) - but then again you don't have to use it. There is even IE around if you want. This list of features from Windows 8.1 is still present in 10's kernel are all obviously imaginary...
"A much improved version of Address Space Layout Randomization (ASLR) makes it even more difficult for malware to predict where Windows 8.1 stores vital data. Apps are no longer allowed to allocate the lowest 64k of process memory. The Windows heap (which stores some app data) now has additional integrity checks. Data Execution Prevention (DEP) is now required and the feature is more accessible to app developers"

"So I would rather stick with what is already tried and true and tested thanks!"
Your choice.

"And I am no "newbie" when it comes to computers as I started using them in 1982 and I have owned almost every Windows OS ever made including MS DOS! "
Well - MS-DOS wasn't a "Windows OS" - The clue's in the name. And "Brian" is such an expert that he seems unable to use Google. I wish him luck in Linux land because Google is going to become a necessity.

I think that the tactics used by Microsoft to promote windows 10 have been overly aggressive and more than slightly underhand. But I understand why they are trying to do it. It is - after all - very easy to prevent the Windows 10 popups (http://ultimateoutsider.com/downloads/ or https://www.grc.com/never10.htm). I personally shall be upgrading very soon.
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Re: Microsoft's Final Attempt re WIN10

Postby Ron » Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:04 am

I've been using Windows 10 since day 1... not a single complaint.
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Re: Microsoft's Final Attempt re WIN10

Postby sidd finch » Thu Jul 07, 2016 10:07 am

But windows 10 is 3 more than windows 7. :)

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Re: Microsoft's Final Attempt re WIN10

Postby Dave McElderry » Thu Jul 07, 2016 10:31 am

Up until even a couple of weeks ago I swore that my main Win 7 desktop (editing machine) would forever remain Win 7. Forever meaning until it was replaced, for whatever the reason. However, as one who works with technology on a daily basis (as most of us do) I finally came around to the resigned understanding that it was going to become more and more difficult as time passed to be working with an outdated OS. All else being equal, if I could have waited another year or two and still known that I could get the upgrade for free, I might yet have held off. However, it would make no sense whatsoever to wait another year or two and then pay for the upgrade. My machine is getting old but still performs incredibly well, so I have no expectations that I will need to replace it in the near future.

After the upgrade I spent several hours attempting to put together a Start Menu that would be functional. I struggled and struggled with it, in many cases finding via web searches that the things I wanted to do were just not possible in Win 10. My laptop has been Win 10 for quite some time now, and I've been using the StartIsBack menu utility that gives me the Win 7 menu system in Win 10. I decided to install it on my desktop too. The relief was instantaneous. In essence I have the best of both worlds. The menu is as fully configurable as Win 7 was, but doesn't interfere with any other part of Windows 10. Why not? It works for me. Goodbye Win 10 tiles.

The upgrade wasn't without its problems, most relatively minor. My Epson Artisan 750 inkjet printer with disc printing capabilities disappeared, as did my Epson V500 scanner. Downloading the appropriate drivers and reinstalling brought them back. More of a problem is my Canopus ADVC-300. Its utility doesn't find it on my system anymore, even though I get the little Windows "tune" when it's turned on and is recognized, or turned off. Premiere Elements doesn't see it either. This may not be the Canopus. It could be that the firewire card isn't recognized properly in Win 10. I've got some troubleshooting to do on that one, but just don't have time for it now. It's going to be a big disappointment for me if I can't get that to work.

There are other issues, but nothing of consequence that I've yet found. From the beginning I've been comfortable with Win 10 being a solid operating system. It's the interface that I despise, specifically the Start Menu (StartIsBack took care of that), and the inability to turn off specific updates if they cause me problems. And of course I think that the methods that Microsoft used to trick and coerce people into the upgrade was despicable. Privacy is the other biggie, but I dug into the Privacy settings and took care of most of that problem. Only time and daily use will expose any other problems.

Microsoft says that there will be no more major OS upgrade releases. Everything will be done as ongoing incremental updates to Win 10. It will be interesting to see if they stick to that. I do have to wonder how long peripheral manufacturers will continue to support a current version of the OS. It used to be that after a printer, for example, was over 2 or 3 OS versions old they wouldn't release new drivers anymore. If Windows 10 will still be Windows 10 five or ten years from now, they'll have to come up with a different system for differentiating between drivers that supported Win 10 five years ago and the present Win 10. Seems a bit odd, doesn't it? We'll see.
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Re: Microsoft's Final Attempt re WIN10

Postby Chris B » Thu Jul 07, 2016 1:06 pm

Microsoft says that there will be no more major OS upgrade releases. Everything will be done as ongoing incremental updates to Win 10. It will be interesting to see if they stick to that.

So far they seem to be sticking to that mantra. The second of these is coming as an anniversary update on the second of August. They have again iterated the start menu (still doesn't look like Win7 - but there you go) and a few other things including (what I think) is a rather nice dark theme.
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Re: Microsoft's Final Attempt re WIN10

Postby Dave McElderry » Thu Jul 14, 2016 9:31 am

In case anyone finds this of use, I finally got around to resolving my issue with the ADVC-300 after the Win 10 upgrade. All I had to do was uninstall and reinstall the Picture Controller Utility. Canopus doesn't claim compatibility with Win 7 or above, but it still works.
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Re: Microsoft's Final Attempt re WIN10

Postby sidd finch » Thu Jul 14, 2016 10:40 am

Thanks Dave.

I have been using Windows 8.1 with Stardock 8 which emulates the classic windows menu system. It works really well and I am happy. I think I will upgrade to win10 and just use something like the StartIsBack menu utility to keep the classic windows look.

And free is free. With SSD's coming down in price I will just clone my hard drive to a new SSD and keep it for a rainy day.

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Re: Microsoft's Final Attempt re WIN10

Postby Dave McElderry » Thu Jul 14, 2016 11:25 am

sidd finch wrote:I have been using Windows 8.1 with Stardock 8 which emulates the classic windows menu system. It works really well and I am happy. I think I will upgrade to win10 and just use something like the StartIsBack menu utility to keep the classic windows look.

And free is free. With SSD's coming down in price I will just clone my hard drive to a new SSD and keep it for a rainy day.

StartIsBack has some pretty good configurable options, including a great right-click menu on the start button itself. One nifty feature is that you can choose a combination of the Windows key plus Crtl, Shift, or Alt to bring up the actual Win 10 start menu at any time. On my laptop I bring up the Win 7 look with Windows key-Ctrl and just the Windows key gets me the Win 10 menu. On my desktop I configured it just the opposite. It boots to the Win 7 style by default. This has to do with my wife playing Win 10 games on the laptop and it's easier for her to just use the Windows key.

Although my desktop machine runs really well for its age it does take quite a while to boot. I've been seriously considering an SSD for it. Might really speed up the boot. They sure are coming down in price.
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Re: Microsoft's Final Attempt re WIN10

Postby Kent Frost » Thu Jul 14, 2016 1:14 pm

Chris B wrote:
Microsoft says that there will be no more major OS upgrade releases. Everything will be done as ongoing incremental updates to Win 10. It will be interesting to see if they stick to that.

So far they seem to be sticking to that mantra. The second of these is coming as an anniversary update on the second of August. They have again iterated the start menu (still doesn't look like Win7 - but there you go) and a few other things including (what I think) is a rather nice dark theme.

That's what Adobe does now, too, with Creative Cloud. No more "versions". Just incremental updates to improve the existing infrastructure.
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Re: Microsoft's Final Attempt re WIN10

Postby Chris B » Thu Jul 14, 2016 5:06 pm

Well - in the final month :-D - I've just updated my main desktop to Windows 10. Looking forward to the anniversary update to smooth a couple of rough edges but everything I've tried so far "just works". Bit of organising for the kids required and I'll probably uninstall virtual clonedrive as ISO handling is now built in. I don't really understand the fuss over the start menu in that I never really used it in Win 7. Programs are either just there as frequently used - or are searched for. Win 10's menu allows me a hierarchy of items and some quick glances for calendar, mail and the like on live tiles.
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Re: Microsoft's Final Attempt re WIN10

Postby Chuck Engels » Fri Jul 15, 2016 1:26 pm

I agree Chris, no problem with Windows 10 for me either. As you said, everything just works. I had a little problem taking my XP machine to Windows 10 but any of the Windows 7 or 8 machines were easy. I love the added features and the speed, boots very quick too. Overall I am really happy and we now have 5 machines with Windows 10, one with Windows 7 that will be upgraded this week, and two old machines still on XP (those will stay on XP till they die).
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Re: Microsoft's Final Attempt re WIN10

Postby Steve Grisetti » Fri Jul 15, 2016 2:21 pm

Yep. I agree. It's time to quit resisting and surrender to the inevitable -- and ultimately better. Windows 10 is the new standard. And the reasons not to move up to it are no longer defensible.
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Re: Microsoft's Final Attempt re WIN10

Postby TreeTopsRanch » Sat Jul 16, 2016 11:46 am

"And the reasons not to move up to it are no longer defensible."

What if you have some old legacy programs that may not run on Win 10? I'm still using a old version of Quickbooks which I'm pretty sure will not run on Win 10.
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Re: Microsoft's Final Attempt re WIN10

Postby Peru » Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:46 pm

I've got an old version of Quicken that will only run on Virtual XP with Windows 7. Windows 10 no longer supports Virtual XP.
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