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Videographer Pricing and Copyright

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Videographer Pricing and Copyright

Postby fishmor » Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:17 am

Hi - I'm Eric and new to Muvipix but have been shooting video for a couple of years and have worked with PRE 8 for a while - I started a little side business (I'm a full time science teacher) in central South Dakota - I've been shooting video and making DVD's / web videos for hunting lodges, hunters/fishermen etc in our local area and I am an outdoorsman myself - I have 2 basic questions

1. I'm charging about $80 for an hour shoot, and $60 for each hour after that. I'm charging $55 per hour to edit. I also do a full day (usually 6 hrs) edited package for $450 - I'm shooting with a Canon XHA1S, shotgun mic and external when necessary. Are these prices too cheap or reasonable???

2. I've been hired by some lodges to shoot some hunting for their clients to take home DVD's - who has the copyright on the raw footage, the edited footage, etc? I've talked with a local photographer who thinks that anything that comes out of my camera or computer is automatically copyrighted by me; but, some say that since they hired me, they own the copyright - how does this work in the world of videography?

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated
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Re: Videographer Pricing and Copyright

Postby John 'twosheds' McDonald » Thu Feb 10, 2011 2:42 am

Can't comment on your prices as I am in the UK and have no knowledge about the USA market and pricing there.

Re the copyright. Unless you make a different arrangement the copyright is yours. The problem comes in preventing folk from copying DVDs that you have produced. You could always have 'copyright free' as your usp (unique selling point) and adjust your pricing appropriately.

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Re: Videographer Pricing and Copyright

Postby Bob » Thu Feb 10, 2011 5:20 am

Paying you to to produce a copyrightable work does not necessarily make it a "work made for hire". See this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work_for_hire

Assuming you are an independent contractor and can not be considered an employee under the common law of agency, to be a "work made for hire" the work has to be one of the statutory categories of work ("motion picture and audiovisual works" is one of the categories) and both parties have to agree it's a "work made for hire". In other words, it isn't a work made for hire unless you and your client agree in writing that it is. Unless you agree, you are the author and copyright holder.

There is a considerable grey area. Even though you may consider yourself an independent contractor, if the client has sufficient control over the creation of the work, you may be considered an employee under the common law of agency. In which case, the work would be a work made for hire and the client would own the copyright. To protect your rights, you really should have a clause in your standard contract that explicitly states that you will own the copyright. Best to consult with an intellectual property attorney on this.

Also, if you are at all serious about enforcing your copyright, you really need to pay the fee and register it. You are going to have a difficult time persuing an infringement claim if you have not registered the copyright.
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Re: Videographer Pricing and Copyright

Postby George Tyndall » Thu Feb 10, 2011 10:04 am

John 'twosheds' McDonald wrote:The problem comes in preventing folk from copying DVDs that you have produced.


Yes, and isn't that impossible to do?

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Re: Videographer Pricing and Copyright

Postby George Tyndall » Thu Feb 10, 2011 10:10 am

Bob wrote:Also, if you are at all serious about enforcing your copyright, you really need to pay the fee and register it. You are going to have a difficult time persuing an infringement claim if you have not registered the copyright.


Bob, when you write "register the copyright," do you mean that each and every creation must be registered? If so, how much is the fee?

Also, even if one has registered the copyright and paid the fee, isn't it all but impossible for a small-time producer to persue a claim?

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Re: Videographer Pricing and Copyright

Postby Chuck Engels » Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:43 am

Hi Eric, Welcome to Muvipix :meet:

I can speak about prices for Wedding Videos and Events which would be similar.
A simple wedding video which includes the ceremony and a few other pre-ceremony shots, about 3 hours work, would be around $600 and editing for that project would be about $200 of that.

For a full wedding video 6 - 8 hours of shooting the price is about$1000 - $1400 with $350 - $500 for editing coming out of that. Hi Definition would be more, about $500 more. These prices usually include 3 - 5 DVDs or Blu Ray discs for the HD video.

I usually charge $50/hour for editing, sometimes more depending on the job but usually get paid on a flat fee for the job. That usually ends up as closer to $25/hour a lot of the time.

I think your prices are very reasonable. Have you thought of pricing packages? Think of ways you can package your service to include a reduced rate, simple shoot of just the highlights or a more involved shoot that includes details. Having a variety of packages for customers to choose from helps.

Glad to have you in the community :)
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Re: Videographer Pricing and Copyright

Postby Bob » Thu Feb 10, 2011 2:21 pm

do you mean that each and every creation must be registered? If so, how much is the fee?

Also, even if one has registered the copyright and paid the fee, isn't it all but impossible for a small-time producer to persue a claim?


Registration requirements vary by country. In the United States, registration is required before an infringement suit may be filed in a US court. If you wait until infringement occurs to register or register more than three months after publication, you cannot claim statutory damages or attorney's fees, you are limited to actual damages (which may be difficult to prove). It's not impossible for a small-time producer to persue a claim, but it may be difficult and expensive.

The basic filing fee is $65, but is lower for on-line filing. It's possible for some types of items to be filed as a group for one fee. Check the Copyright Office site for details. Here's a circular from the US Copyright Office explaining copyright basics: http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.pdf
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Re: Videographer Pricing and Copyright

Postby fishmor » Fri Feb 11, 2011 10:03 pm

Thanks for the info guys - I need to read more on the "work made for hire" stuff but I think most of my work is this - for example, a high end lodge hires me to cover 3 days of hunting and sporting activities and to produce 25 DVD's for their clients and obviously a copy for them - I think they see it as they "own" the footage and the edited version, but I'm not so sure - my basic concern is that some of the work I am doing could potentially end up on an outdoor channel or something like that and I think I need to get paid for that - they could also have someone else make many copies of the DVD's and send them to potential clients which kind of bypasses me - in any case, I need to do more research #-o

Thanks again, Eric
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Re: Videographer Pricing and Copyright

Postby Chuck Engels » Fri Feb 11, 2011 11:12 pm

For weddings we own all of the footage and give the client only an edited copy. If they want all of the footage and all of the rights we will gladly sell it all to them for an additional price :)
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Re: Videographer Pricing and Copyright

Postby John 'twosheds' McDonald » Sat Feb 12, 2011 2:56 am

Chuck Engels wrote:.... If they want all of the footage and all of the rights we will gladly sell it all to them for an additional price :)

That' the way to do it. Make sure before hand that the contract is clear on that point and that you own the copyright otherwise.

Eric, can you let me know via PM your e-mail address. I have a sample contract template that you might find useful as a start point.
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Re: Videographer Pricing and Copyright

Postby fishmor » Sat Feb 12, 2011 12:19 pm

Thanks guys - my email is fishmor AT hotmail DOT com - here's the situation - I am shooting video on their land for them and their clients - doesn't that automatically give them rights or not? What would be a good "additional price" for full rights to the footage? Eric
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Re: Videographer Pricing and Copyright

Postby Chuck Engels » Sat Feb 12, 2011 12:38 pm

It all depends on what you put in the contract, they give you the rights or you give them the rights, it's your video tape.
We charge $500 for all raw footage and rights to use it in any way they see fit, that is for weddings. You might want to add something in the contract about if your footage gets used in a public forum like TV, or YouTube, then you get paid extra. It's all about what you put in the contract ;)
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Re: Videographer Pricing and Copyright

Postby Bob » Sat Feb 12, 2011 1:53 pm

I am shooting video on their land for them and their clients - doesn't that automatically give them rights or not?


No, it does not automatically give them the rights.

"Work made for hire" has a legal definition which is defined in the United States Copyright Act of 1976. To be a "work made for hire", it has to meet the requirements of that definition. Just getting paid to produce something is not sufficient for it to be considered a "work made for hire". Neither is the location of the shooting.

If your contract explicitly spells out who owns the copyright, that prevails. If it does not, you are in a legal morass. You can claim you are an independent contractor commissioned to produce the work, in which case you clearly own the copyright. They can claim that you are an "employee" and the work was made for hire, in which case they own the copyright. Employee doesn't mean that you are on their payroll. It's another legal concept, in this case determined by the "common law of agency". The courts will have to make a determination and they will consider the hiring party's right to control the manner and means by which the product is accomplished. This is not cut and dried and the more you look and act like a conventional employee, the less likely you will prevail. If owning the copyright is important to you, put it in the contract.

One thing you should consider is whether it really makes sense to insist on retaining the copyright. You may cause the lodge to hire another, less demanding, videographer. And, it's going to cost a substantial amount to persue an infringement claim in court. Unless there is a reasonable likelyhood of substantial loss of income, it may not be worth the trouble.
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Re: Videographer Pricing and Copyright

Postby fishmor » Sat Feb 12, 2011 10:20 pm

Since I'm fairly new to this, I have not even brought up the copyright issue with the lodges - I just want to make sure I'm doing this fairly for everyone, and one of the lodge managers at one time said that since he hired me for the job, he owned everything (I didn't argue with it) and it just didn't sit well with me :-k Thanks again guys, Eric
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Re: Videographer Pricing and Copyright

Postby sidd finch » Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:22 pm

Welcome to Muvipix

Having the right to own something and the deep pockets to litigate that right might be two different things to think about. Regarding your concern that your videos might end up on broadcast TV, you might consider the free publicity aspect of the video being shown on TV. In that case placing watermark on your videos like your website or some identification might help you get future business. That way any potential business that happens to see your work might be interested in hiring you to perform more. I would assume that the TV station that airs the video would have better resources to combat any legality. Just my thought.

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