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What about Final Cut Express section for us Mac users?

For our MAC users, questions about the various Video Editing software products.

Re: What about Final Cut Express section for us Mac users?

Postby Dee Dee Warren » Thu Dec 27, 2007 7:19 pm

Here's a screenie - somewhat familiar, but different enough to give me the jitters
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Re: What about Final Cut Express section for us Mac users?

Postby Steve Grisetti » Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:32 pm

Wow! That DOES look familiar, Dee Dee!
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Re: What about Final Cut Express section for us Mac users?

Postby Dee Dee Warren » Sun Jan 06, 2008 7:37 pm

While some things on the surface seem really similar - some things are radically different. Having just barely touched it my initial impressions are that PE is easier in putting the clips together - but where Final Cut Express is outdoing PE (and I think there is where the 100% price difference is) - there are two bundled programs with it. LiveType which is a much more robust titler (initial impression only) than PE and Sountrack which is a much more robust way to edit the audio portions - it will be interesting to see if my final impressions remain the same. It is different enough though for me to really just wish Abobe had a Mac PE version - I don't want to have to learn another program. :cry: And I don't have the funds for Premiere Pro.
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Re: What about Final Cut Express section for us Mac users?

Postby Elvira » Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:05 am

I'm going in the opposite direction from you, Dee Dee. The first non-linear program I really used in depth was Final Cut Express. I thought I'd try out some video programs for the "PC side" of my Mac Mini (via Bootcamp) and I had heard good things about Premiere Elements. I find it to be the most like Final Cut Express, but also frustratingly different, because it lacks some of the things that I really like! (Though of course some things may merely be buried--which is why I got a book on Premiere Elements and am slowly going through it.)

I miss locking the individual video or audio tracks. I miss the advanced features in garbage matte. I miss a lot of the filters. I miss the color corrector. Of course I miss LiveType! :-D Maybe Premiere Elements has some of the things that I "miss" and I just haven't found them yet? Can anyone enlighten me?

The thing that bothers me the most is the lack of some of my favorite filters and the kind of sucky garbage matte. Also--and this may merely be because I am so new to this--where are the free plug-ins and filters? I'm so spoiled by the nice collection of freebies for Final Cut users (including the 50 point garbage matte). Where is that for Premiere users?

Things I like about Premiere Elements: LOVE the built-in titles. Prefer them over Final Cut's Boris Calligraphy (though I plead ignorant to a lot of Boris's features, so perhaps I should not be so critical of it). There are a lot of little subtle things I like about the interface--I am too inarticulate to outline them now, but little details about trimming a clip in the timeline, or adjusting a transition--they're kind of nice. The way they handle keyframes is pretty nice, but I seem to mess them up sometimes. (Final Cut is a little more convoluted, but I don't get the sort of problems I do with errant keyframes.)

I wish that you could set chapter (or timing) markers with a keyboard stroke, rather than clicking on the mouse. I just respond better to tapping the keyboard. Also, the markers in Premiere Elements are so easily movable--I used to think that Final Cut's markers were a nuisance because it was difficult to nudge them around (at least I didn't know how) but now I see that having them virtually unbudging is the way to go!

The big gripe I have about Premiere Elements is that I purchased version 4, but I've had to uninstall it because it was so buggy and unusable! This is completely unacceptable. Never has a copy of Final Cut Express (version 1, 2, 3, 3.5, or 4) been this unreliable on the several Macs I've used. There is no excuse for this. Right now I'm using Elements 3, which is much more stable.

I have no intention of switching over to Premiere Elements--Final Cut is where it's at for me. But I like learning new programs, and I know a lot of people who are Windows-only, and I'd love to recommend a good video editor to them. Premiere Elements 3 is pretty good, but there are some irritants about it (as I've outlined above).

As far as Mac vs. PC, since I use Windows in Bootcamp, I like the say that I have the best of both worlds. Why would I go back to Windows-only? There is nothing not accessible to me--I can still use Windows-only software at full speed (like Premiere Elements), and I also have access to fabulous Mac-only software like Final Cut, Logic Express, Garageband, iMovie, and so forth. It's win-win! \:D/
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Re: What about Final Cut Express section for us Mac users?

Postby Steve Grisetti » Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:25 am

There are dozens of free plug-ins for Premiere Elements, Elvira. Plus virtually any plug-in designed for Premiere Pro also works in Elements.

Meantime, mind if I ask how much you've got into your editing system, all in? Including the cost of the Mac Mini (plus keyboard, mouse and monitor, since it doesn't come with these things), any extra RAM you've added, Final Cut Express, Windows OS and Premiere Elements?

I'm just curious what the cost of the best of all possible worlds is?

And also -- Have you tried to work with video ripped, as is, from a DVD yet? I'm curious how well Final Cut functions with non-standard DV video files.
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Re: What about Final Cut Express section for us Mac users?

Postby Elvira » Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:41 am

Steve Grisetti wrote:There are dozens of free plug-ins for Premiere Elements, Elvira. Plus virtually any plug-in designed for Premiere Pro also works in Elements.

Where, please? :)

Meantime, mind if I ask how much you've got into your editing system, all in? Including the cost of the Mac Mini (plus keyboard, mouse and monitor, since it doesn't come with these things), any extra RAM you've added, Final Cut Express, Windows OS and Premiere Elements?

Hmm . . . I'm not sure what the math is . . . the monitor is a few years old, the keyboard is old, the mouse is a cheap Microsoft Mouse. I got Vista for cheap . . . got a deal on Final Cut Express (I never pay full price ;) )! The price of it all was worth it, because I want both systems and access to both platforms. It would never satisfy me to settle for just Windows only after having used some of these (now favorite) Mac-only software.

I'm just curious what the cost of the best of all possible worlds is?

I pay less for my little Mac Mini with its Vista license and copy of Final Cut Express (as well as Premiere Elements) than I would pay for a Mac and a PC machine (two machines). I love the new Intel Macs, because I get two-in-one. Before I had to have a standalone PC (still have one--don't turn it on much).

And also -- Have you tried to work with video ripped, as is, from a DVD yet? I'm curious how well Final Cut functions with non-standard DV video files.

I always convert any MPEG-2 files over to DV or some other codec (I like Apple's new PRO RES codec) on the Mac. Editing files ripped directly (as-is) from a DVD has been problematic, on Mac or PC. (Premiere Elements 4 absolutely choked on MPEG-2 files. Never again.)
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Re: What about Final Cut Express section for us Mac users?

Postby Steve Grisetti » Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:41 am

I don't want to stray too far from Dee Dee's thread, Elvira, but here's a place to start with plug-ins for Premiere Elements.
http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.3bbef056

As I said, in addition to these, virtually any plug-in that will work in Premiere Pro will also work in Elements.
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Re: What about Final Cut Express section for us Mac users?

Postby Steve Grisetti » Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:57 am

And I'd still like to know how much it costs to set up a system like yours! :)
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Re: What about Final Cut Express section for us Mac users?

Postby Chuck Engels » Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:18 am

There are some links to plugins at http://www.chuckengels.com on the videolinks pages (1 and 2).

I would like to know what book you are reading on Premiere Elements ;)
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Re: What about Final Cut Express section for us Mac users?

Postby Dee Dee Warren » Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:35 pm

Hey elvira, I think a lot has to do with what one starts with - I started with PE and fear change, so anything that is different in FC is freaking me out.

[warning - I may risk offending windows users here - please don't yell at me]

I too would never go back to PC only as my primary system (my work laptop computer is PC as that is what my work uses and I needed one without a webcam for court use, and Apple does not make laptop webcams optional) for several reasons:

1. Is the best of both worlds options (I will write below on the cost of this below) - why have a system that can only do one major platform?
2. I adore my Mac, I can't imagine living in a PC-only world only. I am one of those who gets that far away dreamy look in her eyes when talking about her Mac

On cost - for equivalent systems in performance and quality (or mostly equivalent - there are seems to be some variations) - hardware wise, the cost would be what you pay for a PC only system. I found have found it to be a myth that Mac are exorbitantly more (when comparing quality and specs). However, if a user is into the "low end" market, Apple simply doesn't compete there with the exception of the mac mini which is intended to be a starter Mac. In the pro-sumer market Apple is highly competitive in pricing. Now there will be additional costs in software - at the minimum, you own two operating systems, you would expect to pay for two operating systems. But continuing software costs would be the same. Boot Camp is free with Leopard. I choose not to use Boot Camp but WMWare Fusion which is $80, so that might be an additional, but not necessary cost.

But then there are the intangibles, which for me, is one of the primary reasons I will not go back to PC unless Apple starts to suck in this area. If I have a problem, all I have to do is trot down to the Apple store with an appointment (easily made and usually that same day) and speak one on one hands on with a skilled technician to help me that speaks English. If I choose to call for support, I get someone in Cupertino - not India. I have nothing against residents of India, but I found the language and accent barrier to be very difficult and aggravating to an already tense situation. I also find them to be simply running on a script and ill-equiped to answer advanced problems. Also, there is this robustly loyal Mac community, no matter where you go. I go to monthly Mac User Group meetings and we learn all kind of things together just because we are Mac enthusiasts (and believe it or not the median age of my group is 60!! grandmas and grandpas asking how to clone their hard drives!!!)

So I am just starting Elvira with FC, and I really can't judge until the end the comparison between the two systems. PE is one of the reasons I wouldn't have bough a pre-Intel Mac, I love PE. Adobe does programs really well. Unfortunately it is my opinion that many PC developers do not do programs very well, but Adobe really really does. For some reason, Adobe appears to be leaving the Mac user a bit behind and that makes me sad because I am loyal to their product.

I am so looking forward to MacWorld!!!

Elvira, will you please stick around so that we can bounce ideas off of each other? I am not that frequent of a poster, but for a while I was the only Mac person here.
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Re: What about Final Cut Express section for us Mac users?

Postby Dee Dee Warren » Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:45 pm

Steve Grisetti wrote:And I'd still like to know how much it costs to set up a system like yours! :)


Now Steve for my system, I have a professional setup, so it is very expensive but the same as you would expect for a similar professional PC setup (with the exception of the monitor - more on that below)

I have a MacPro quad-core 3.0ghz, smoking graphic card, four hard drive bays, 4 gigs of ram (don't buy ram from Apple, way too expensive), which with keyboard was around $3500 (I bought it apple certified refurbished to save a few hundred bucks). I chose to pay a fancy new keyboard, not necessary, for $50. I have a 23inch cinema display - probably could have got a Dell equivalent for about $500, I paid $750 simply because I wanted the complete Apple look, so that was extra money I chose to spend.

Equivalent pro setups in the PC world with the same quality (and definitely not the same support) are not shockingly lower than what I paid. Dell sells laptops for over 5K when you get into high powered machines.

My friend just bought a very nice iMac for cheaper than an equivalent PC with monitor. I recently bought my husband an HP "media center" PC with monitor that frankly is a hunk of crap. We could have gotten an iMac. I have a wonderful HP laptop that I bought three years ago for $2400 (approx) - a MacPro laptop would be equivalent.

I bought nice little tablet HP within the past few months for $1400 - a MacBook would have been equivalent (it was the webcam issue that was the deal breaker for me).

I hope that answered some of the cost questions. Me personally, now with almost a year of OSX under my back, I am just in love with the OS. That is me, things may be different for other people.
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Re: What about Final Cut Express section for us Mac users?

Postby Chuck Engels » Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:50 pm

Dee Dee Warren wrote:Elvira, will you please stick around so that we can bounce ideas off of each other? I am not that frequent of a poster, but for a while I was the only Mac person here.


I hope you both stick around we will have more and more MAC users and it would be great to have an already active forum. And although it may not show, Steve is also a MAC person during the day and a Windows person at night, kind of like Jeckle and Hyde I guess 8-[
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Re: What about Final Cut Express section for us Mac users?

Postby Dee Dee Warren » Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:53 pm

Well Chuck you know I am always good to pop in intermittently. If I do end up springing for Premiere Pro it will be more often. I am at the point in my experience where I really do need to get the Pro versions of Photoshop and Premiere
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Re: What about Final Cut Express section for us Mac users?

Postby Steve Grisetti » Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:55 pm

You know, in the end, it shouldn't be about personal loyalty to a brand or operating system or whatever.

It should be about the environment in which you can be most productive.

So best wishes to Dee Dee and Elvira! You are not the enemy. All we all really want is to create the best videos possible with the tools we've got at hand.

I look forward to continuing to eaves drop on your enlightening and open=minded dialogue.
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Re: What about Final Cut Express section for us Mac users?

Postby Dee Dee Warren » Tue Jan 08, 2008 5:56 pm

Steve Grisetti wrote:You know, in the end, it shouldn't be about personal loyalty to a brand or operating system or whatever.


Well too late for me on that front, I have drank a whole pitcher of the Apple Koolaid - though I do not yet dress only in black long-sleeve mock turtlenecks. I do have tremendous loyalty to the Apple brand - it is a testament to PE that I am willing to virtualize a PC enviroment in order to use it. There are few to no other programs that I would do it for. I so wish Adobe would make Premiere Elements for the Mac.
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