portrait vs cine mode

[Jayell]

I'm playing with green screens .. shooting indoors (with terrible lighting .. and a wrinkly green screen ). Using a Canon HV40, shooting in HD.
So here's the question. I put it in PORTRAIT mode in the first video .. then changed NOTHING other than switching to CINE mode to shoot the 2nd video. Is there something in that change that explains the lighting difference shown in the video?!

..and #2: Does poor lighting explain grainy results? (which I realize don't show here).

[Steve Grisetti]

Well, that's weird! (I'm assuming Cine is just 16:9 and not a switch to 24p or any other setting. Is that right?)

I'm not sure about the graininess -- but you certainly do want lots of light on both the background and the subject to make your green screen work. Someone on this forum suggested using a couple of flourescent lights to give you lots of bright, even coverage.

[Jayell]

Well, that's weird! (I'm assuming Cine is just 16:9 and not a switch to 24p or any other setting. Is that right?)

That's correct, as it shows in the manual that you HAVE THE OPTION of ALSO switching to the HDV PF24 or 24F mode, which I did not. Although in the CINE mode description, it says "the camcorder adjusts various image settings to give a cinematic look to your recordings." That's nice and vague. I only started using it as several of those on this forum said they liked the results. And so far I've been pleased, but I haven't done any indoor shooting. Now that I'm playing with it, I don't have a clue what settings to use
Edit: and yes, Steve, it's the normal widescreen dimensions .. I just cropped it down to show the issue I was having.

[Dave McElderry]

Jayell, I don't have experience with the Canons, but my Panny GS400 has a Cinema mode too, and the results are very similar. The manual also describes the mode as giving a "cinematic look." To my eyes it mutes the colors, and perhaps lowers the contrast slightly. The Panny has three normal aspect ratio shooting modes: 4:3, 16:9 Cinema, and 16:9 Wide. I learned a while back that the subdued look that it produced in the Cinema mode was not what I wanted. I do all of my shooting in regular 16:9 Wide.

[Jayell]

To my eyes it mutes the colors, and perhaps lowers the contrast slightly. <snip> I learned a while back that the subdued look that it produced in the Cinema mode was not what I wanted.

Thanks for the additional info, Dave. I guess I'm just figuring out the same thing.

[Ken Jarstad]

I just spotted your post, Jayell. I don't think there is any difference in Cine Mode in the HV20/30/40 model line. The description is vague all right. No one, to my knowledge, has defined exactly what Canon is doing in Cine Mode although if you are interested I could point you to at least one topic elsewhere that digs pretty deeply into the inner processing.

It is generally known however that Cine Mode uses a well known cinematic recording technique that originated with film - shoot with low contrast and low saturation, since it it easy(er) to add them in post. This works well because it avoids blown out bright portions, compressed black portions and color bleeding where it doesn't belong.

As for "grainy" pictures I really don't know what you mean. My older HV20 has virtually imperceptible grain in Cine Mode, even in high contrast situations with lots of black in the frame. Perhaps there is another problem which you have identified as grain. And I have heard that proper green screen technique can be rather "touchy" to adjust - must be well lit and even. My producer used a couple of banks of screw in florescent bulbs at a recent field shoot.

[Jayell]

No one, to my knowledge, has defined exactly what Canon is doing in Cine Mode although if you are interested I could point you to at least one topic elsewhere that digs pretty deeply into the inner processing.

I was just looking for a layman's explanation of what I might notice different.

As for "grainy" pictures I really don't know what you mean.<snip> I have heard that proper green screen technique can be rather "touchy" to adjust - must be well lit and even.

I'm pretty sure my graininess came from low, uneven lighting, as it was a problem before I even started playing with pulling the green out.

Thanks for the detailed response, Ken!

[Ken Jarstad]

I have heard others here say the HV series aren't great in low light but my experience is different. My HV20 is magnificent in low light. As I mentioned you can tweak the results in post - and it is usually necessary to add at least some contrast to all my clips to make them look normal. That is to be expected when you always shoot with low contrast. If I tweak the clip for more brightness then a certain graininess does show up although that grain in the these Canons is often described as "tighter" grain that many other cams and the audience tolerates it much better - it isn't so noticeable to most people who don't edit video. That being said, I usually always avoid brightening my clips, preferring to adjust gamma instead. And, sometimes a touch of saturation.

[Jayell]

I try not to tweak my stuff too much .. I usually end up liking the original product better, but then it's not often I'm shooting in low lite. Good info. Thanks Ken!

[Ken Jarstad]

Point being....... if you shoot in Cine Mode, which has reduced contrast and saturation (among other things which we don't really know) then a corresponding set of corrections need to be almost always made to the captured clips. I always add contrast while editing. I have gotten used to reduced saturation so I use it sparingly.