ADS Pyro v. Canopus ADVC110

[rusty]

Now that I am past the half-way point in capturing and cataloguing our MiniDV footage onto the computer, I want to capture about 15 - 20 old Video 8 tapes for editing/DVD authoring, etc. They range from between 10 - 17 years old. I managed to get a great, working Sony Video 8 camera for free from my brother who was glad to unload it, but the camera only has RCA type audio and video out jacks due to its age. So I need to get a converter, which will also allow me to grab some footage from some VHS tapes, like our wedding video, before they completely disintegrate. Amazon has the ADS Pyro for $140 and the Canopus ADVC110 for $218. These seem to be pretty much the only two options. Any thoughts on whether the Canopus is worth the extra $78? A few reviews I have read suggest the ADS Pyro may be a little unreliable, but I haven't seen the same about the Canopus. However, I don't know who is writing those reviews, and I do trust the Muvipix gang so please let me know your thoughts. Thanks!

[Chuck Engels]

Hi Rusty,
I would definitely go with the Canopus model if the extra $$ are not a problem.
Even going to the next step up would be a really good idea.
http://astore.amazon.com/chuckengelsco- ... B0006UMGHE
This model includes the Time Based Correction that helps do a much better job of capturing old tapes.

The Canopus Converters seem to have less trouble than the ADS Pryo converters, so that would be the best choice between the two. Not to say that you would have a problem with the ADS model, but why take a chance unless you have to.

[Bobby]

Due to service issues, I would never buy another product from ADS. Pay the extra few bucks...

[Chuck Engels]

I would probably go with the Canopus model instead of the Pyro Link knowing what I know today.
Still, I must say that ADS did get my Pyro working and I am now very happy with it.

I have purchased two ADS products, the Pyro Link and a Firewire card.
Both items had to be returned to the manufacturer for repair/replacement.

The tech department was good and responsive but this was a few years ago. Since then I have heard terrible stories about them. In my case I was satisfied in the end and didn't mind the extra few weeks of problems and waiting for my equipment to be returned. When they did get it back to me everything worked and has continued to do so.

[Paul LS]

I have both the Pyro and the Canopus ADVC100 (the older version of the ADVC110). The ADVC100 is more robust, better built than the Pyro but infact I use the Pyro more as the audio is slightly louder with the Pyro. Picture quality is the same with both, so performance wise the Canopus does not justify the extra money.

[John 'twosheds' McDonald]

Based on Paul LS's comment -

If the returns policy at the store that you buy from is OK then go for the Pyro. If you have problems you can always return it and exchange it for the more expensive Canopus.

[Dave McElderry]

I've had a ADVC300 for several years. It's seen a lot of use and has always worked great. Canopus makes a quality product. You can see it when you first pick it up. If you don't mind spending the extra money I don't think you'll regret it.

[tjodork]

My friend just bought an ADS Pyro and is trying to capture old non-miniDV tapes and no matter what he does he gets dropped frames ...in an hour of capturing he had 3000-4000 dropped frames.... so knowing nothing more that this it would seem to be better to spend the extra.

[Paul LS]

If he is seeing dropped frames with the Pyro then he probably would with the ADVC110. The ADVC300 however has a time base corrector that might help eliminate the dropped frames. The ADVC300 is significantely more expemse than the ADVC110.

[Chuck Engels]

The Pyro, and most any converter, is going to drop some frames. Even the Canopus ADVC300 will probably drop some frames although not nearly as many.

One of the major considerations when capturing VHS or other analog tape media using a digital converter;
the device the tapes are being played on. A good VCR will stop many dropped frame issues, with the Pyro and other converters. But it still depends on the condition of the tapes as well. If the tapes are in rough shape it will be a hard problem to fix.

[Ken Jarstad]

3000 - 4000 dropped frames in an hour is way too much!
These resources haven't been posted in a long time now but are still there for the gleaning:

http://www.digitalfaq.com/guides/video/capture-playback-hardware.htm
http://forum.videohelp.com/capturing-f2.html
http://forum.videohelp.com/restoration-f43.html

[Chuck Engels]

3000 - 4000 dropped frames in an hour is way too much!

I don't know Ken, that's only a little over 2 minutes of footage out of an hour of video.
I'm sure that some of my old tapes (20+ years) dropped at least that much.

[rusty]

Thanks SO much for all the help everyone! I will digest it and then buy something, probably up the foodchain a bit from the ADS Pyro. It is amazing how much knowledge and willingness to help there is out there in Muvipix-land!

Now I have to deal with the problem that my brother's Sony Video 8 camera, that appears to be in excellent shape, doesn't want to play my Video 8 tapes that I believe were shot on a Ricoh camera that isn't around anymore. The playback, both in the veiwfinder and when connected to a TV, are very poor with all kids of static and interference, flickering, etc. and the audio is pretty much a completely unintelligible garbled mess. I tried a number of my tapes, which, other than age, ought to be in decent shape. WIll try shooting some new Vidoe 8 footage with the Sony camera tonight (he had a packaged blank Video 8 tape in the camera bag) and see if it plays back okay. If so, I may have to try a professional service to capture them. If not, the camera may be the culprit.

[Ken Jarstad]

Rusty, if the camcorder has ever been dropped then the mechanism may be out of alignment. The term is 'interchange' and refers to a mechanical standard that should allow playback of any tape shot with the same designated standard. Tapes shot in Standard-Play' should be interchangeable but those shot in Long-Play may not always interchange even when new because of tolerances. From your description of the problem it sounds like the camcorder may have been dropped.

Chuck, using WinDV I have noticed as many as 100 dropped frames at the beginning of a tape or between shots during a tape run but capturing an hour tape with 3000 to 4000 dropped frames seems like the video would be largely unwatchable with tearing and so on. I am very fortunate to have a JVC S-VHS machine with DigiPure processing and a Sony Hi-8 camcorder with dynamic noise reduction, both with built-in timebase correction, so I have never run into such a serious frame drop problem. If the video on those tapes are priceless then timebase correction and possibly signal processing (proc-amp) will be needed. Those old links point to folks that are pros at recovering and restoring old video.

[Chuck Engels]

but capturing an hour tape with 3000 to 4000 dropped frames seems like the video would be largely unwatchable with tearing and so on.

I agree that the JVC VCR is a huge help in getting a good clean capture. Still, you have to realize that 4000 frames isn't even 3 minutes out of an hour long video. If you missed a second or two every few minutes it might be slightly noticeable but not always terribly obvious. Maybe 2 minutes is too much in some cases but I don't think that is always the case.

If I can get 58 minutes out of a 25 year old 60 minute tape, and only lose a few minutes, that's not too bad. Of course I don't want to miss any more than necessary. So if a better VCR or converter will help prevent some of the loss then I would have to take that into consideration