Consumer vs Professional cameras

[n9jcr]

I currently have two Panasonic PS-GV320's that I have been happy with overall, but don't work so well in low light such as at a school musical. I want to upgrade and am willing to make an investment so I looked at Panasonic's (supposedly broadcast grade) AG-DVC20. I was surprised to find it doesn't support a wide screen mode but my real question is what makes it "better"? From some of the reviews I read it seems to have the same lens, zoom and sensor as the consumer camera I already have. I tried calling Panasonic and they apparently don't directly support their professional cameras and depend on dealers for that.

Reading some of the other posts, I see the HV30 comes well recommended but it's a consumer camera. The Canon XH A1 lists a 1/3" sensor as do many/most of the consumer cameras. I do see the professional cameras give you more, or at least easier, controls to manipulate but I would have expected larger sensors or something that would convince me I will get better picture quality. What am I missing? And of course some manufacturers just don't spell out their specs very well which doesn't help.

BTW, want to stay in a DV, Priemere Elements workflow.

Thanks!

Bob

[Chuck Engels]

I'm not sure you are going to get a huge increase in low light quality when you are talking about a difference of a thousand dollars or so Bob.
The price difference between the HV20 and the XH A1 is about $2k, there is a little better control with the XH A1 giving it better quality in low light but still not GREAT quality. The HV30 is only $600 right now.

With the XH A1 you get lots of manual controls for Iris and Gain, as well as the ability to create a huge number of presets for every possible condition.

If you really want to go professional and get GREAT low light quality you have to spend up in the $5k or higher range.
The greatest difference is almost always in the lens;
Take a look at the lens differences between the XH A1 and the XL H1
http://reviews.cnet.com/digital-camcord ... mncol;psum
http://reviews.cnet.com/digital-camcord ... mncol;psum

Almost $3000 difference in price, 3CCD 1/3", but the lens makes the majority of the difference.

Now here is what we use as the 4 primary cameras at my church (a little older model but pretty close)
http://reviews.cnet.com/digital-camcord ... mncol;psum
This one can swap lenses depending on the need, some lenses are almost as much as the camera alone.
This unit has 2/3" 3CCD and lots of manual controls.

[n9jcr]

I do understand the lens difference and cost. I know we have more invested in lenses for our still cameras than we do in camera bodies. I appreciate your insight.

In one of the other topics, someone else made the comment that when someone is paying you to record something, you want to be using a camera that doesn't look like the same camera everyone else brought. I guess size lends some credibility too.

Thanks Chuck!

Bob

[Chuck Engels]

For some reason people think that if you walk in with a HV20 you are just some guy with a camera.
They don't want to pay for 'some guy with a camera'. They want to see some monster camera that weighs 40 lbs and takes two guys to set up
The quality might be the same but they don't care, they want to feel like they are getting what they paid for and bigger is better I guess.

The Prosumer line has helped to some degree, camers like the XH A1 at least look more professional than the HV20 but still don't cost as much as a real pro camera would.

[n9jcr]

So, now looking harder at HV30/HV40:

1)I don't see a firewire port listed in the specs - looking at the instruction manual though it seems to be there - just making sure I'm not going to be depending on USB.

2) Until I make the leap into editing in HD, I can record HD and the camera will downconvert (?) into SD?

3) Would I be correct in anticipating that my video quality will be better recording in HD and downconverting to SD than if I simply record in SD?

Thanks again Chuck!

Bob

[Chuck Engels]

1. Yes there is a Firewire port

2. Yes, record in HDV. Doesn't take anymore tape, also uses plain MiniDV tape so no additional cost.
Then when you are ready to put your home movies on Blu Ray discs you will be ready.

3. Downconverting is simple and most people agree that the quality is a bit better.


You can't go wrong with the HV30 IMO.
If you do purchase one online please use the links to Amazon (currently $599) or B&H (Also currently $599) located at http://www.chuckengels.com

[Bobby]

Acually in the case of the HV30, I think it always records to the tape in HD. I am not home to check..

[John 'twosheds' McDonald]

For 'tidying up' low light noise have a look at the Neat Video plugin:-

http://www.neatvideo.com/

[jackfalbey]

Generally speaking, the main differences between consumer and prosumer/professional camcorders are:

- pro cams have more & larger sensors for better resolution, color, and low-light capability
- recording format; not as big of a deal these days with HDV and AVCHD turning up in both categories
- accuracy of color reproduction
- manual control
- audio connectivity (XLR inputs)
- battery life

If you're looking to stay in a DV workflow for now, I'd dtrongly suggest looking at the Sony PD170 handheld and/or DSR-250 shoulder-mount. They have professional XLR audio connections which means you can use better mics for the school plays (or even take the clean audio feed right off of the auditorium's mixing board!), great manual controls, up to 9 hours of battery life, and are the undisputed low-light kings in the DV prosumer world. Brand new they'll run you $2000-2500, but you can often find used ones in good condition at B&H for under $1500. If you don't need as much manual control or XLR inputs, I'd recommend the Sony VX2100, VX2000, or VX1000. They use the same sensors as the PD170 & DSR-250, but will cost much less on the used market because they're not considered "pro-grade" even though they are built from pro-grade parts.

If you're looking to stay lower-budget, and have the option for HD later on, then the HV30 is probably the best low-light performer unless you spend $3000+. It isn't anywhere as good as the PD170 in low light (I own both) but it will do a better job than just about any other consumer-grade cam on the market right now.

[momoffduty]

Found some price comparisons on the HV30. Some are as low as $245. The specs look the same, why the big diff in price?

http://www.everyprice.com/item.asp?item ... DQodWyxRKA

[Chuck Engels]

Those prices are not real and they are bad places to buy from, don't believe it !!!!

After you place the order they call and tell you that they are out of stock and try to sell you a much more expensive camera.
Those places are ripoffs from the start. Anytime you see a price difference that big it has to be someone trying to cheat you.

[John 'twosheds' McDonald]

Very sage advice, Chuck.

The maxim should be "If it sounds too good to be true it probably is."

[momoffduty]

Thanks John & Chuck. At first thought maybe the 'whats in the box' had diff items, but listed the same. Too good to be true, thanks for the advice!

[rfjg]

If you don't mind buying refurbished items, have a look at this deal at Tigerdirect. http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3833333&CatId=3357 Canon HV20 $399.99 USD. Only downside is comes with only 1 month warranty.

[momoffduty]

Thanks rfgj, I have bought refurb before once and not a problem. Still weighing my options.

Chuck, your link to Amazon store does not show Chuck Engels store. When I purchased my scanner awhile back I remember seeing that heading at Amazon.