I trust you all! :) Need recommendation!

[Ted]

Hello all,

My Canon HV20 took a turn for the worst (for some reason, the automatic shutter decided to stop opening when I turn on the camera).

So, I brought it in to Best Buy (where I purchased it) and thanks to my performance plan, I can swap it.

I'm looking at the HF10 and got really excited about the SD capability...but then read at camcorderinfo.com that it's AVCHD! Yikes!

I'm struggling with PE4...there's no way I can even DREAM of touching the scary AVCHD.

So...I'm back to square one.

People at Best Buy are asking if I'll consider a HDD camcorder because it's "easier to edit/transfer". I've always been a MiniDV guy because of archiving, etc.

I realize they both have their pros and cons. So, when I saw the SD camcorders I was in heaven... fewer moving parts = less chance of problems (I believe).

But the AVCHD scares me (Have I mentioned that? LOL)

What camcorder would you recommend? Should I stick with Mini DVs? Should I go for HDD (I fear these...if the hard drive gives out, I'm toast).... or should I brave the AVCHD but get the awesome SD Flash freedom?

I'd truly appreciate any input! Thanks much!

[Bobby]

Hi Ted. Sorry to hear about your problem.

I hate those built-in lens caps (I assume that is what you are talking about) because they are so fragile. The first thing I got for my HV30 was a UV protective filter to permanently cover the lens and of course then I had to get a regular lens cap for that. Doing that may not protect me from something like your problem in the future, but at least it protects from something physically contacting and bruising that fragile mechanism.

I wonder why Best Buy is pushing something else and not just replacing your HV20 with the latest model

If It can't be fixed, is it stuck open or closed? If the HV20 was out of warranty I would just consider removing the cap assembly (or jamming it open somehow) and getting a filter / cap as I did.

As far as AVCHD, there are lots of experts here and I am sure somebody will pop up. But I recently made the choice to go with the HV30 and my primary reasons were that the tapes were in-effect self archiving. I was also concerned as you are about the ability to edit AVCHD and the quality due to compression issues.

So my vote would be to stay tape.

Bob

[jackfalbey]

HDV recorded on MiniDV tape is still the way to go - for now. Advancements in AVCHD data rates and the number of NLEs that can handle it are increasing, and I suspect that the quality and convenience of AVCHD recorded to SD/SDHC cards will surpass tape in the next year or so. Of course, you'll still need a powerful Dual- or Quad-core PC or Mac to edit it. Another advantage of tape is, as Bob said, instant archiving, and the HV20/HV30 will also play any standard-def MiniDV tapes you may have. DV and MiniDV tape is so well-entrenched in the professional video industry that it will stick around for a while.

Definitely stay away from HDD cams if you're going to edit your video!! They compress the video heavily, resulting in noticeable generational loss, and there are too many moving parts to break or contribute noise to the video.

So, if you have a fast computer and don't have a lot of old tapes that you'll need playback capability for, AVCHD isn't nearly as scary as it was even 6 months ago and may be a great choice for you. I'm not sure about PE4's ability with AVCHD, but PE5 should be out in a few months and it will most likely have native AVCHD editing.

[Ted]

Bob and Jack,

I really appreciate your answering my post and thanks for taking the time to do so!

I'm so on the fence about AVCHD that I'm getting splinters!

My thoughts:

1. AVCHD is probably the way of the future, and if I had more knowledge in editing, I'd probably lean more there. I do have a Dual-Quad Core 2.66 Ghz processor (not sure if that's good!) but only 2 GB of RAM. Running Windows XP. So I'm not even sure I have a system UP for the challenge!

2. I really do like the SD Flash (so easy to import, etc.)

3. I am leaning towards the HV30 (if I can get my hands on one) because I own PE4, I have purchased a Lynda.com training DVD on it, (LOL!) and frankly, you guys are very helpful and I appreciate having the members of this forum as a support system (HUGE benefit, IMHO)

4. I was just concerned that the MiniDVs will make the ways of the dinosaurs. I know I continue to hear reassuring contrary to that, but it's my worrisome side that gets the better of me sometimes!

As I said, I'll probably go with the HV30. Best Buy has it for $820. Since they'll give me my credit towards that, I'd basically get it for free.

Boy, am I thankful I bought the extended protection plan!

And Bob, the site you showed me (www.hv20.com) is awesome! Another great resource...thanks!)

[jackfalbey]

Editing AVCHD is no different than editing any other format. It just needs capable editing software and a fast PC. Your system specs are just fine, so no worries there. I have PE4 (came free with my ADS Pyro) but I don't use it, so I can't comment on its ability with AVCHD. If you wait a day or so, one of our AVCHD-shooting members or moderators should be along to give you better advice on that. There are other sub-$100 editors like Sony Vegas that do handle AVCHD natively right now, but then you have to learn a new interface.

Tape is already obsolete technology, and AVCHD will probably be the "prosumer" standard for the next few years at least, but MiniDV tape will continue to hang around for quite a while. No need to worry about it. There are TV stations still shooting on Betacam even though it's been obsolete for a long time. If you're comfortable with the HV30, go for it!

I shoot video for a living, and as the owner of my own production company, I'm sticking with standard-def video shot on MiniDV tape for the next few years...

You might also find http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/forumdisplay.php?f=133 helpful; it's an entire forum devoted to AVCHD issues...

[mark hansen]

I hope you don't mind jumping on your thread and asking a few basic questions of my own. I think I know the answers to most of these, but my wife wants me to confirm with people using the HV-30. as as the thread says... I trust ya'll.

I was going to jump to a new Camcorder early next year, but my daughters camcorder broke and I thought I would move up my new camcorder earlier and give her my Cannon Elura 65. it's a few years old, but still works fine.

Anyway some basic questions about going to HDV. I have sort of settled on the HV 30, I saw lots of good reviews and the only bad thing was the build in shutter (breaking)...having one --- that don't impress me much. I guess I'm old school, but still not a show stopper. Is there any other things bad about the HV30 I should know about?

The big one to confirm. The tapes have already shot with the ELURA 65 can be read/played with the HV-30. I guess it will, but as it's a show stopper (if not), I can't let that go by, no matter how silly of a question it is.

Tapes... I presume I don't' need to by different DV tapes. Do I need to by HD DV tapes? Their big bucks!
Batteries - As its all a Cannon, can I use the ELURA 65 batteries with the HV 30. Would they last about the same time, or is the power draw significantly different with HV30.

I played with one today and saw I can shoot normal video, that's good, so I don't have to go in with both feet for everything. I assume capture will be all the same - Even with HD.

I use PE3 (still), will that capture HD video? Can I edit HD video normally? Will PE4 edit HD Video? Is one better than another for HD?
Will I NEED a hotter PC to edit HD? I assume rendering will be crazy long, but would it be out of the practical range?

I saw it had a 24P mode. Can I use that to capture 8MM tapes (which are at 24 frames per sec) without the flutter or adjusting the film speed? (Is that what 24P means ) Does the 24P or the 30P handle differently in PE3?

Low light and night vision. I didn't see anything special about low light. and no night vision, rats, I could use that for the Paintball games I film. I don't suppose I overlooked that.

I know lots of basic questions, thanks for your help. It would sure make me feel better before dropping a grand on a new camera (best Buy). Amazon had it mid to high $700 - would be a reliable place to spend the money.

Thanks for your insight.
Mark

[Ted]

Hey Mark,

Nope, I don't mind your threadjacking. We're all here to learn.

I can't offer much information in answer to your questions...but I can say that I did have an HV20 (before the shutter decide to die on me!) and am considering going with the HV30.

HV20 is also an HD camera...and I used normal MiniDV tapes... (I can't recall if we can still record HD on the regular MiniDVs... somebody more knowledgable can help).

Also, do you know of www.camcorderinfo.com? It's a pretty good site that has a knowledgable forum.

I wanted to add that right now BestBuy.com has the HV30 for $820.00 I know this because I had my store price match and I saved about $180. Again, I'm not sure if that's helpful to you...(you may already have known that).

Hope I helped a bit...let us know with what you go.
Ted

[Bobby]

Mark, yes you can use standard miniDV tapes. The recommendation seems to be just to stick with one brand.

"Most camera batteries don't hold enough charge for video. Taking continuous video uses a lot more power than a few photos. See the mah rating." EDIT - no - he was asking about camcorder batteries, dummy!

Can't comment on the other questions.

Bob

[Ted]

Bob,

Not sure if you know the answer to this... I can't recall if you have it.

Do you happen to own (or know where I can purchase) the Jumpstart DVD Training for the HV30.

I believe I'm going to stick with the HV30 over the HF10... because Mark reminded me that it can record in STANDARD or HD... and right now, I need "easy" in my life at age 41!

Just wasn't sure where I could purchase the training DVD.

Thanks!

[jackfalbey]

Here goes, Mark:

The HV30 does use the same batteries as the Elura 65. It'll also take the Impact NB-2l22 ($50) that will run for about 3-4 hours.

Get a UV filter ($10) for the front of the camera. This will protect the lens and shutter.

The HV30 will play your old standard-def tapes. You do not need to use the expensive "HD" tapes. It is important to stick with one brand of tapes to avoid gumming up the heads. Many HV20/HV30 users swear by Panasonic tapes for the best results, although I use Sony tapes in my HV20 and they work just fine.

Shooting and capturing is the same for DV and HDV. Editing uses the same techniques but it will take longer with HDV because of the larger amount of data to process. PE3 and PE4 will both handle HDV, but PE4 will make better use of a multi-core processor, and the faster the PC the better when doing HDV. Cineform makes a software-accelerator for Adobe that makes most HDV editing real-time.

The 24P mode is not really true 24 fps, but an approximation of it. I don't use it, but you can read up on it at dvinfo.net and hv20.com for more details.

The HV30, as with almost all consumer-grade camcorders, has poor low-light capability compared to 1/3" 3-chip prosumer cams. In good lighting, the HV30 shoots absolutely beautiful video.

Shop around for a good price; I've seen it on sale at Newegg for $699, and B&H had it for $650 on a one-day sale last month.

[Ted]

Hi Jack,

I'm interested in this Cineform accelerator of which you speak. Where might I find more information on this?

And I'm not sure what you mean by "in real time". Does this mean that if I shoot 15 min. of video, it imports (or renders) in 15 minutes? What would the speed be WITHOUT the Cineform?

I'm still learning!

Thanks much for your help, Jack!
Ted

[Bobby]

...Do you happen to own (or know where I can purchase) the Jumpstart DVD Training for the HV30...

Photo stores, such as B&H have them. Try

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/control ... &Go=submit

or go to http://www.bhphotovideo.com and search for "jumpstart hv30"

Bob

[Ted]

...Do you happen to own (or know where I can purchase) the Jumpstart DVD Training for the HV30...

Photo stores, such as B&H have them. Try

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/control ... &Go=submit

or go to http://www.bhphotovideo.com and search for "jumpstart hv30"

Bob

I'm embarassed I didn't think to look at B&H first.

Thanks very much, Bob!

[jackfalbey]

At www.cineform.com they have fully-functional 15-day trial downloads. Their software is somewhat expensive, but they are also widely used by professional editors, so it's very stable and reliable and it's designed specifically for Adobe Premiere.

"Real time" means that with most editing adjustments and effects you'll be able to see the changes immediately in the preview window and play it back in real-time without rendering first. That means no more red line above the timeline and no more waiting forever to see if you like the changes!

[mark hansen]

Thanks to everyone. I appreciate the time in information. I knew I could count on the people on the board. It looks like a go for the HV-30, Now to find a good price.

Thanks again,
Mark