General Questions Regarding AVCHD Camcorders

[Dave McElderry]

As the last remaining user of SD, I have a couple of initial questions:

Do most/all AVCHD camcorders have the ability to also record in SD? Would they produce an AVI when they do that?

[If the answer to the above is no, then the remainder don't apply]

If so, how does the quality compare to a high quality SD camcorder? I'm presently using a Panasonic PV-GS400 and I honestly think it's one of the best (consumer) SD camcorders ever made.

If you record in AVCHD and then reduce to SD in the editing process, how does the resultant quality compare to just having recorded in SD originally? Is there anything to be gained by doing that?

[Steve Grisetti]

Most older AVCHD camcorders do not shoot in SD. (The "HD" in the word AVCHD stands for "high def" of course.)

However, many newer cams shoot in multiple resolutions. And, if that's the case, they do shoot AVC standard def video. I have no experience with these cams, so I'm not sure how well this format edits however with a program like Premiere Elements (if that's the program you're editing it with).

You can, of course, bring your AVCHD into a project set up for AVCHD and output a standard def DV-AVI from it, if you prefer to edit a standard def file. The quality should be very good -- although with more lower resolution, of course, than the original file.

[Dave McElderry]

Thanks Steve. There are still a ton of people out there, probably more than not, who don't have the ability to play a Blu-ray disc. If I make the step up to HD I'm wondering what my workflow would be to produce SD output. Do you think that AVCHD is the way to go when it comes to hi def?

[sidd finch]

AVCHD is a decent format it is just a bear to edit with. Because of the compression of AVCHD it requires a pretty robust computer as the drag on the CPU is the show stopper.

Sidd

[AgileMktg]

I'm shooting my latest projects with AVCHD camcorders. I've used PRE10 to output to a "regular" DVD in widescreen format. As has been mentioned, not everyone has a Blu-ray player. I test play all my master DVDs (and an occasional dupe as I go along) on a crappy little 9" portable standard def DVD player - sort of a "least common denominator" test.

Both my old SD cam and the new HD cams are Sonys. Since I find the SD lens (or at least the footage) to be slightly soft, I'd say that on my projects I can notice the "native" SD being slightly softer than the reduced HD. Does anyone else? I don't know - I figure if they're not bringing it up, I'm not going to either.

[Dave McElderry]

Sidd wrote:
AVCHD is a decent format it is just a bear to edit with. Because of the compression of AVCHD it requires a pretty robust computer as the drag on the CPU is the show stopper.

Sidd, what would be other high quality HD options that would edit well in Premiere Elements (I use both V7 & V10), and would not be an investment in a format that's already run its course? See system specs in my signature.

Scott wrote:
I'm shooting my latest projects with AVCHD camcorders. I've used PRE10 to output to a "regular" DVD in widescreen format. As has been mentioned, not everyone has a Blu-ray player. I test play all my master DVDs (and an occasional dupe as I go along) on a crappy little 9" portable standard def DVD player - sort of a "least common denominator" test.

Both my old SD cam and the new HD cams are Sonys. Since I find the SD lens (or at least the footage) to be slightly soft, I'd say that on my projects I can notice the "native" SD being slightly softer than the reduced HD. Does anyone else? I don't know - I figure if they're not bringing it up, I'm not going to either.

Scott, I have to wonder how many people are really recording in HD and then outputting to SD. I assume by "native" you mean using the SD option in an HD camcorder. Of course the advantage of always recording in HD would be that I'd have the HD footage available if I wanted to use it, plus I could output to either SD or HD. Disadvantage would be larger file space and more sluggish editing, even if I never really planned to use it as HD.

I think Sony makes some very nice camcorders, and would be probably my #2 brand of interest when I seriously start comparison shopping. Not discounting any brand at this point, however.

Anyone have any comments regarding comparisons between AVCHD and other HD formats?
I have to admit that I haven't been keeping up, simply because it hasn't applied to me and the technology changes so fast.

[AgileMktg]

Scott, I have to wonder how many people are really recording in HD and then outputting to SD. I assume by "native" you mean using the SD option in an HD camcorder. Of course the advantage of always recording in HD would be that I'd have the HD footage available if I wanted to use it, plus I could output to either SD or HD. Disadvantage would be larger file space and more sluggish editing, even if I never really planned to use it as HD.

I think Sony makes some very nice camcorders, and would be probably my #2 brand of interest when I seriously start comparison shopping. Not discounting any brand at this point, however.

Dave:

No, I just leave it in AVCHD when I shoot and edit. PRE10 simply "downsizes" the output - or myabe I should say "dumbs down" the output - when I burn to a regular DVD. And while it has an "AVCHD on DVD" output setting, that's not what I'm using. Essentially I'm wasting all the features of my AVCHD as well as the processing power just to output a standard definition DVD.

However, these are not the only projects I'm doing! I'm doing in-house work where I'm fully utilizing the HD output because the final file is going straight out onto the web. They're short (~10 min) promo clips, not hour-plus long instructional videos shot with multiple cameras.

As far as particular camcorders go, I have Sonys because at the time I sourced them, they were the best bang for the buck. I also have a MiniDV standard def Panasonic "prosumer" cam which is fantastic. I want to upgrade to another Panasonic AVCHD which records on SDHC cards, but I couldn't justify the cost yet.

[Dave McElderry]

Thanks Scott. Do you have any experience with HD formats other than AVCHD? I may have to start another thread on this.

[Chuck Engels]

the Canon HV40, 30 and 20 can be captured in SD even though shot in HD.
This will create an AVI file or in the case of HD a MPEG file.

You can convert most AVCHD files to SD if you want to but they will not capture as AVI and I don't know of any AVCHD camcorders that will also shoot SD video. My phone has an option to shoot SD, 720p or 1080p, but that is not AVCHD format it is MOV.

As far as output goes you have the option to output a HD Project to most any digital format and size, including DVD rather than Blu Ray. The conversion in Premiere Elements 10 is very good and I have been very happy with the results when I need to export an HD project to one of the SD formats including DVD.

[Dave McElderry]

the Canon HV40, 30 and 20 can be captured in SD even though shot in HD.
This will create an AVI file or in the case of HD a MPEG file.

You can convert most AVCHD files to SD if you want to but they will not capture as AVI and I don't know of any AVCHD camcorders that will also shoot SD video. My phone has an option to shoot SD, 720p or 1080p, but that is not AVCHD format it is MOV.

As far as output goes you have the option to output a HD Project to most any digital format and size, including DVD rather than Blu Ray. The conversion in Premiere Elements 10 is very good and I have been very happy with the results when I need to export an HD project to one of the SD formats including DVD.

Great information Chuck. Many thanks! Do you have any words of wisdom regarding the advantages/disadvantages of one HD format over another? I'm wondering if there's a particular direction that I should be going here when shopping for an HD camcorder.

[Chuck Engels]

I really like the HV40 a lot, but it is tape based and capture time is in real time just like the old SD camcorders.
Quality is excellent and there are enough manual settings to record great video in most conditions.
the format is also the preferred format for Premiere Elements and Pro, so rendering and editing are much faster and easier, you don't need as beefy of a computer either.

AVCHD is must faster to capture, just copy the file from the device to your desktop and go edit.
Takes a much beefier computer setup and rendering is slower than HDV MPEG files.

If I were in the market for another HD video camera I would get a DSLR, Canon or Nikon.
The quality is amazing, the video is pretty easy to edit and works in Premiere Pro 5.5 and Premiere Elements 10 without any problems. The ability to change lenses and work with the camera's settings are a real plus that you don't get from a standard HD video camera.

Right now I have HD video on my phone (blackberry), a GE DV1 AVCHD recorder that works well, and my HV40.
I use all of them at one time or another but when it is important only the HV40 will do for me

[Dave McElderry]

Again, great information Chuck. Much appreciated. So the HDV MPEG is the preferred format for editing in Premiere Elements. I thought that MPEG video was problematic for editing. Or does this not apply to HD? Or does it have to do with changes in the latter versions of the program?

Is the MiniDV tape the only recording medium for the HDV MPEG format?

Is MiniDV on its way out?

[sidd finch]

Mini DV is not being made so much but there are a ton of legacy camcorders so do not write the format off yet. I am a fan of the HDV but when I am not using my main camera (mini DV) I like the H.264 MPEG4 format. It is easy to edit on and outputs well.

Sidd

[Chuck Engels]

MiniDV Standard Definition camorders are definitely on the way out, but tape based video cameras are not.
the HDV MPEG format is not the same as the MPEG DVD format of Standard Definition video.
Premiere Pro and Elements work flawlessly with this format and it is pretty much headache free editing IMO.
MiniDV tape is the only way to capture true HDV format video via Firewire. If you are used to MiniDV tape anyway this is a perfect next step into the High Definition arena. The HV40 lets you capture in HDV or in SD Widescreen if you prefer.

[Dave McElderry]

Chuck, you wouldn't believe how helpful those few lines were to me. Thanks so much!