I'm lost - PSE8 Organizer won't start

[Juergen]

First of all: Many thanks to the Muvipix Team. This is excellent support for all PE user.
I did a Premiere subscription to support this. Please never stop ......

Now my very first topic.
I'm using PSE since version 5, following all versions 6, 7, up to 8. I'm now at over 30000 pictures with tagging, facing, and and and (4 years work)
With version 8 I started also to do some video editing and since the patch is available it looks pretty good on my Quad Core / Vista machine.

However, today I started the page turn project (guided by Muvipix) in PE8, created some nice pages in PSE8 and after resizing (1000x750)
I added these pages in my timeline of PE8. It works fine and I could do some pretty nice test DVDs

On a sudden my organizer shuts down. No restart possible (not from PE8 and not from PSE8).
I remember my last action: deleting 2 not used pictures from the "Project Media Panel" of PE8

The editor starts (PSE8) w/o any problem. I can create new pictures which are visible (after saving) in the "Project Media Panel" of PE8 (together with all the other pictures/videos from my catalog).

I have repaired/optimized my catalog (ctrl, alt, shift) - same issue; I have checked other forum and tried some advice - same issue
I have uninstalled and installed PSE8 - same issue; I have uninstalled PE8 and PSE8 and only reinstalled PSE8 - same issue

New catalog works fine (created with ctrl, alt, shift).

Please, I really need help, as I'm very concerned about losing my 30000 pictures
Appreciate any advice ...

thanks Juergen

[Steve Grisetti]

Hi, Juergen. Welcome to Muvipix! I hope we can help you.

I'm just not quite sure what's up. You say Premiere Elements works and Photoshop Elements works and that your "new catalog works fine." If your new catalog works fine, does that mean you've got your Organizer working again?

[Juergen]

Dear Steve,
thanks for taking care and sorry for not clear explanation

What I wanted to say is, that everything works fine for years.
Also PSE8 and PE8 works fine since Oct 2009.
The issue happened yesterday.

Now I can no more start the Organizer from PSE8 and PE8 with my original catalog (30000 pictures).

If you click on the organizer while pressing ctrl, alt, shift, you will be able to create a new catalog.

Refering to your question: yes, with this new catalog the organizer starts.
But when switching to the original catalog, the organizer crashes.

The menu when starting the organizer with ctrl, alt, shift, offers also repair and optimize,
which I did for my original catalog. I got positive message, but could not start the organizer with my original catalog

At the moment I have PSE8 reinstalled on my system. PE8 is uninstalled.
.... try to find any hint.

..... just find out some interesting thing.

My photodownloader works perfect. I can download from SD card and include new photos in my original catalog.
If I download same photo twice, I get the message, that the photo is already included in the organizer.
However, I can still not start the organizer. It crashes again and again.

I hope, it's just a little thing to change in my catalog ......

Any ideas?

thanks Juergen

[tjodork]

Do you use the organizer backup feature ? Do you have a recent backup ? You might want to restore to a recent backup and confirm that works...If that does you could find the directories that were added after that and add to the catalog...maybe adding slowly and confirming after each set of pictures that it still works.

I'm not sure there is a limit to the size of the catalog though ....anyone know ?

[Helen]

Not sure if there is a size limit, but I am up to about 27000 images and am noticing that the PSE organizer is getting slower to load. I am still on PSE6.0 and I think it is my RAW images that are slowing it down (hoping anyway). I have only in the last year started shooting RAW and it was after this that it slowed down.
I hope that the limit is not around 30000. I am backing up my catalogue a lot more frequently now in case I have problems.

Hope you get your organizer sorted Juergen

[Steve Grisetti]

27000 images, Helen! Wow! I'm not sure I've taken that many pictures in my lifetime!

However, you do inspire a very important point. Programs, like Premiere Elements and the Organizer, need to use a lot of space on your hard drives when you open them. This is just because there's a lot going on with these programs and the programs are trying to minimize what's actively being managed at the time. That's why it's important to keep at least 20-30 gigabytes of space free and defragmented regularly on your C drive. More would be even better.

It could be that your huge Organizer file is choking on lack of free space.

[Juergen]

thanks for your hints.

Tjodork,
I did my last backup March 7, 2010. So I would miss about 1 month work.
This would be my last option, as I'm not clear what's going on by restoring my catalog, as I can not open this catalog.
How to start? Open a new catalog and restoring the original one .... ???

Helen, Steve,
I don`t think there is a limitation as I'm working with this volumes for years.
Something went just wrong and I can not identify the reason.

Steve,
when you are talking about the "organizer file", which file do you you mean?
I think there is many space available and all disks are defragmented.

Any further idea? I will take everything for checking ....

thanks
Juergen

[Barb O]

What I wanted to say is, that everything works fine for years.
Also PSE8 and PE8 works fine since Oct 2009.
The issue happened yesterday.

Now I can no more start the Organizer from PSE8 and PE8 with my original catalog (30000 pictures).

If you click on the organizer while pressing ctrl, alt, shift, you will be able to create a new catalog.

Refering to your question: yes, with this new catalog the organizer starts.
But when switching to the original catalog, the organizer crashes.

The menu when starting the organizer with ctrl, alt, shift, offers also repair and optimize,
which I did for my original catalog. I got positive message, but could not start the organizer with my original catalog

At the moment I have PSE8 reinstalled on my system. PE8 is uninstalled.
.... try to find any hint.

..... just find out some interesting thing.

My photodownloader works perfect. I can download from SD card and include new photos in my original catalog.
If I download same photo twice, I get the message, that the photo is already included in the organizer.
However, I can still not start the organizer. It crashes again and again.

I hope, it's just a little thing to change in my catalog ......

Any ideas?

thanks Juergen

First, you said that you had previously posted on another forum and used suggestions from that forum. Is there any previously attempted fix that you have not described in this thread ?

Second, it is very interesting information that the photodownloader is able to include new photos in the original catalog.

There are some preferences files and other control files, so it might be one of these files that causes a problem opening the Organizer with your original catalog.

I recommend that you go to
http://www.johnrellis.com/psedbtool/pho ... ts-faq.htm
and read
-- Examine the Organizer's Log File
-- Delete the Organizer's Preferences if it is crashing
-- Recreate the Organizer's thumbnails

Before doing either the delete preferences or the recreate thumbnails, I suggest that you attempt to start the Organizer with your original catalog that fails and then do the instructions in
Examine the Organizer's Log file
then post here
-- any error messages that are in the Log file
-- the last few lines of the Log file entries

[Juergen]

Dear Barb O,
thanks for all your hints.

I tried a lot of John R. Ellis tips. Finally it looks like succeeding with "Recreate the Organizer's thumbnails".

As the Organizer did not start with the my original catalog,
I renamed "thumb.5.cache" located in "C:\ProgramData\Adobe\Elements Organizer\Catalogs\PSE_6_0Jürgens Katalog" to "old.thumb.5.cache.old".
Then starting PSE8 Organizer .... and I'm lucky seeing all my pictures again

At the moment thumbnails will be created. I think it will take some time for 30000 pictures (and hope it will not stop ....).

I also could see, that the photodownloaded did not add the new photo in the original catalog.
It was added in the new catalog (sorry my misinterpretation).

So my conclusion on this:
Something corrupted the "thumb.5.cache" which stops the Organizer from launching.
Renaming the "thumb.5.cache" forces PSE8 to create this file new in a proper way.

Thank you all for your help.
It's every time just a matter of sorting out all your ideas.
But therefore the ideas must be on the table. Thanks.

What a pitty. After 2 hours of thumbnails creation it shuts down again.
When re-starting the Organizer I can see for 3 seconds the organizer and it starts to create thumbnails.
Then again shutdown

So what to do? How I can identify what's going wrong or even the wrong picture or video?
I attached the log file.

br Juergen

[Barb O]

Juergen,

Unfortunately the log file does not help me identify the cause of your crash.

My next recommendations are :

1 - read the
http://www.johnrellis.com/psedbtool/pho ... er_crashes

2 - Its step 1 discusses turning off the Auto Analyzer and I agree with that suggestion. I do not know if the Auto Analyzer is causing your current problem, but I do know that it causes problems for many people. Therefore I totally agree with John's recommendation to turn it off. Because you crash so soon you might not be able to use the Edit > Preferences command to turn it off, therefore you should do step 3 to recreate the Preferences. (because you only have Photoshop Elements installed the default preference is to have the Auto Analyzer off)

3- Observations and a question
You have already repaired your catalog successfully and you know that a newly created catalog does work. You are attempting the thumbnail create but it fails before completing all thumbnails.

I suspect that it could be failing on the thumbnail for a specific file. Do you think it fails at the same thumbnail every time ? Do you think that it fails on one of these pictures - "I remember my last action: deleting 2 not used pictures from the "Project Media Panel" of PE8s" ?

If you are able to scroll to the bottom of the thumbnails immediately after you start the Organizer and before it crashes, can you guess what files (photo or video) are the next thumbnails to be created ?

4 - Download and run an analysis tool for the PSE catalog that John Ellis wrote - see
http://www.johnrellis.com/psedbtool/index.htm

5- John Ellis is a frequent contributor on the Adobe Photoshop Elements forum. I think that he is the best person to review the output from his analysis tool and to make additional suggestions for solving your problem.

Therefore, after using my suggestions here, I recommend that you post to the Adobe Photoshop Elements forum at http://forums.adobe.com/community/photoshop_elements

If you then post a link to your adobe forum thread within this thread, I will also follow your thread on the Adobe forum.

[Juergen]

Dear Barb O,
yesterday I decided to restore from my Backup (March 7, 2010). I got the message, that the backup was restored successfully.
However, thumbnail creating failed again (after 2 hours) and the organizer shuts down again and again.

I went through all your suggestions.
Finally after re-installing PRE8 !! and deleting the organizer preferencies the Organizer stops from shutting down
and thumbnail creating was continued and finally successfull finished.

Unfortunatelly I did these two steps at the same time (installing PRE8 and deleting organizer preferencies).

At the moment everything looks good and I will now add the photos between last backup (march 7, 2010) and today.

However, I do not feel very well as I do not understand the rootcause.
I personally think, it's related to PRE as I'm working w/o any issue for years. Problem starts with using PRE.
There must be a close link between PRE Project Media Panel and PSE Organizer,
as I can add and delete any picture/video/music from the PRE Project Media Panel which influencies the Organizer.
..... this was where my problem started ....

Final questions: Is there any chance to uninstall/delete PRE+PSE completely (every directory, catalogs, .....) to start re-installing
from the scratch. Afterwards restoring my final and latest backup.
Should I open a new topic in this Forum

Again thanks for your hints. Finally it works ....

br Juergen

[Steve Grisetti]

Great solutions, Barb! Thanks again.

[Barb O]

Unfortunatelly I did these two steps at the same time (installing PRE8 and deleting organizer preferencies).

Yes, that is unfortunate because now we do not know which action resolved your problem.

However, I do not feel very well as I do not understand the rootcause.
I personally think, it's related to PRE as I'm working w/o any issue for years. Problem starts with using PRE.
There must be a close link between PRE Project Media Panel and PSE Organizer,
as I can add and delete any picture/video/music from the PRE Project Media Panel which influencies the Organizer.
..... this was where my problem started ...

.
I agree with your suspicion that it could be related to PRE. I am running PRE 7, so I can not comment on how the PRE Project Media Panel interacts with the Organizer in version 8.

Recommendation
Read this FAQ about the Auto Analyzer
http://www.johnrellis.com/psedbtool/pho ... s_with_the
Because you have installed Premiere Elements 8 again, I suspect that it will have set the Preference to make the Auto Analyzer active. My recommendation is that you look at your current Organizer Preferences settings and disable the Auto Analyzer. (There are some functions in PRE 8 that you will not be able to use because they require the Auto Analyzer : however based on the reported experiences of other PE customers, my personal recommendation is to NOT run the Auto Analyzer. This decision is made to prioritize stability.)

Is there any chance to uninstall/delete PRE+PSE completely (every directory, catalogs, .....) to start re-installing
from the scratch. Afterwards restoring my final and latest backup.

I do not immediately have an answer to this question.
As a specific action:
Have you deleted the Premiere Elements project that was the active project when you did the deletes from the Project Media Panel ? Because you suspect that your problems started during your work within this project, we do not know if this PE project is corrupted in any way. So my thought is that it would be better to delete that Premiere Elements project: hopefully you do not have many hours of work invested in this project.

[Juergen]

Dear Barb,
thanks for your valuable advice.

I finaly finished the whole backup, thumbnail reating and adding about 200 photos (after backup dae until today).

Then I start my PRE project which should be a photo album with 34 page turn and pictures starting as movie.
.... just as presented in the page turn training.

I end up with the same organizer crash as before and I'm pretty sure now, that I can reproduce this behaviour.

What did I do:

1. Starting PRE and PSE
2. Creating a picture with PSE Editor with standard saving (... include in Organizer)
3. Exporting from PSE Organizer as .jpg with 1000x750 pixel (for PAL standard)
Based on this action: THE EXPORTED PICTURE IS NOT INCLUDED IN THE ORGANIZER.
4. Adding this exported picture in PRE timeline from PRE Project Media Panel (double click project area)
5. Everything works fine in PRE. I can see the added pictures
6. As soon as I move now to my PSE Organizer, the Organizer crashes.
However, my PRE project is still running well and I can see the pictures in the PRE Project Media Panel.

My conclusion: only add pictures to PRE which are already included in the Organizer.

I will double check this, as soon as my Organizer is up and running again.
Unfortunatelly it is still try and error to repair my organizer.
Most success is based on renaming thumb.5.cache and PSA file and turning off the Auto Analyzer stuff.

I will keep you update.

thanks
br Juergen

[John 'twosheds' McDonald]

That sounds like a neat bit of detective work, Juergen.