Photoshop organizer

[Wheat King]

The Photoshop Elements catalog references the photo files, video files, and audio files on your computer and displays a thumbnail of each in the Photo Browser.

Important: Photo files remain where they are originally stored; they do not reside in Photoshop Elements. Instead, Photoshop Elements creates links to the original files. If you delete an original file, Photoshop Elements will not be able to access it.

Your catalog is like a database that contains links to your photos and media files. These links inform Photoshop Elements about the photo’s location, file format, what tags are attached to it, date the photo or video was taken, and so on. All of this information gives you flexibility in managing, identifying, and organizing photos and media files.

Although you automatically create a catalog when you start Photoshop Elements and bring in photos and media files, it’s possible to create more than one catalog. Most people don’t need or want multiple catalogs. However, multiple catalogs are useful, for example, if friends or family members share Photoshop Elements on the same computer and want their own, separate set of photos, media files, and keyword tag organization scheme. Or, perhaps you want one catalog of work-related photos and one catalog of personal photos.

This is from the help file... explains it better than I could. They suggest using multiple catalogs for multiple people but that's not what I'm after. Might not get more time to investigate the networking thing today. (Snow is sticky and there is a family of snowpeople waiting to be built!)

[Wheat King]

Update:
Still working on this, I found some posts on the adobe U2U forum that say the new version (photoshop elements 6) allows you to set up multiple computers (wife's laptop and my desktop) to access the same catalog using a network share... From what I understand you won't be able use the organizer at the same time. But at least you could both be putting files into the organizer and tagging them so that no matter which computer you were at you would see the tags. (meaning... If my wife downloads pictures from the camera onto a network share and tags photos, I will see those photos and tags in the organizer when I open the catalog from my desktop after she's done... This would be perfect for us cause rarely would we need to be in there at the same time anyways.

here's the links on the adobe forums.

http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.3c05a55b/0

http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?14@@.3c054c48/0

Still got some more work to continue testing on this, but I haven't had more time to play with yet, but wanted to post what I had found so far in case others hadn't come across this info.

[bgsnmky]

Wow thanks for all the work.

Question..I guess I am confused on what the Catalog really is.

Example...the software is loaded on both computers and can tag the pictures. But where does the "catalog" sit.

I just figured that was a part of the software/organizer. Is it not?

So when you say you and your wife can tag the photos but you cna both view the catalogue (one at a time)...where does it sit?

It might help if explaining the whole tagging and where do the metatags etc sit. are they truly added to the pcitures..and that is why the external hard drive works?

THANKS again!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Clayton]

Not quite sure what you're saying, Todd.

But your tags having nothing to do with how the photo looks. They're metadata, and they exist entirely for cataloging, sorting and searching your media files.

Once you've tagged or added any metadata to a media file, it's there for life -- no matter where you move the file to. And you'll be able to search and sort with that data using your or anybody else's Organizer.

Steve are you 100% sure about this. I use Photoshop Elements 5 for catalogging all my photos and have many tags attached to each. I have never used catalogging in PEL. When I look at the photos in Bridge I do not see any of the tags. If I go back to PE and use the option to "write the metadata to the file" then it stays with the photo and shows up in bridge. I think you have to write to file before it stays with it, but could very well be wrong.

[Steve Grisetti]

I wonder if that's unique to reading Organizer metadata in Bridge.

We'll be getting Bridge CS3 on our work computers soon (at least that's what they've been telling us since September) and I can test it then.

But thanks for challenging me with this, Clay. There is precious little information about the Organizer out there and, when I researched the article, I spent a couple of weeks studying Bridge's functions, experimenting with Organizer to see what works similarly and finding what I could on the internet. I certainly can't claim to be an authority on it -- just the guy who's read one chapter ahead of most. There's certainly the possibility I'm missing something!

[Clayton]

If I remember right, I experienced this same thing before I had bridge, and was viewing photos in Photoshop CS that I had tagged.

[Barb O]

Tags are sometimes written to the photo file as Keywords. And that is why people are reporting seeing the Tags (actually Keywords with the name of the Tag) that are written to the metadata of the photo file (for those types of photo files which support this metadata). I don't think that video files support this metadata and I am skeptical on whether RAW format photo files do.

Since I said sometimes written, you will logically ask when and why? A quick answer is
- when a photo file is passed from the PS Elements Organizer to the PS Elements Editor for editing
- when a Write Tags/Properties to File command is executed from the Organizer for specific currently selected photos
At this general level of discussion, the comments apply to multiple versions but there usually are some minor differences between versions.

Note: All of the above applies to the name of the Tag. It does not include any Category structure relevant to that Tag. It also might not include the Star ratings tags (I have never checked that.)

The primary repository of Tagging and Category information is the Photoshop Organizer Catalog. Its structure and naming convention is different in PSE 6 from prior versions, but many of the same principles are the same. Key pieces of information that are ONLY in the Catalog file are the definition of Collections/Albums and any Creations (like slides shows made in Photoshop Elements) and Notes. The Category structure for Tags is also only in the Catalog.

Looking at the Adobe User to User forum would be a good idea for anyone considering networking files used by the PSE Organizer. When reading posts on the topic of networking , I recommend reading posts specific to the version that you will use. Some people have done some networking with Version 5 (I think it was network path named based).

[mark hansen]

As I'm reading thorough the PE forum to gather information I came upon this thread that may seem to answer many questions on what I want to do and I want to confirm my understanding on what I want to do.

First some background: I currently run PEL3 with Photo shot 7 as my stills editor. I bought the PrE4/PE6 but haven't installed it yet. Yea, I know, but I'm still in the middle of projects and haven't had the need to jump just yet.

Anyway we have many photos and we are taging them with key words to help find them later on - using them Photo impressions 6.5 from Arcshoft (got that with the new scanner/printer). We are using tags like Jenna, Shawn, Jamie, and Pets Abby, muffin, Molly, location such as England, MS, NH etc. We put the pictures in a file structure by date and tag them with the people in the photo. We just started with the tagging process -- THEN we find out when we archive them, the tags do not know its been archive, and there are no tags on the CD, so they are just files again, without file structure to help find them that way and no tags. Not too good, no tagging for long term use.

My set up is a network with the main file on my wife's extra hard drive and a back up on the external. My PC is the main PC where I do the video and photo editing. I have no problems getting to the pictures on my wife's PC. I only plan on having one copy of a catalog so networking that isn't an issue.

The goal is to tag the pictures, with multiple tags so I can retrieve them for future projects in multiple ways, even if that means putting in a CD from the archive. I have 33 projects in the works not to mention the ones for the kids so tagging will be important when we start to scan the photo albumns. (another project in the wings) I can't keep all the photos on the hard drive I'm sure that will fill sometime.

So my questions are.

--After I load PrE4/PE6... will the PE6 go and fine my pictures where I tell it to look and put them in my catalog?
--From reading here, I can put multiple tags for each kid, pet, location etc. correct? I assume I can, say, give me all the Jenna photos, or all the Shawn photos or all the Jamie photos and easily get them to PrE4 project easily.
--If I use PE6 to move the photo from the hard drive to the CD, will it know it and move the location information for each picture to CD # 1. After doing that, will it still stay in the catalog and remember what CD that picture is on? Basically telling me to get that CD and insert it so it can fine the picture?
--Is there a back up feature of PE6, allowing me to only back up the new or change photos to the external hard drive? (Currently is use PC sync for that, but as I get more and more photos, its taking more time to find what is new.)

Sorry for what may seem like some basic questions.

Also, can I install PrE4/PE6 and PrE3 on the same PC at the same time? Do they conflict with common files or something? Does any of it conflict with Photo Shop 7? I seem to remember reading I can install and use both, but want to confirm. I guess if that's true, I can Install it and use PrE3 for existing projects and move to PrE4 for the new ones..

Thanks for your help,
Mark

[Steve Grisetti]

There is no problem with having several versions of these programs on the same machine -- neither legally nor technically.

You may find, however, that only one of the Premiere Elements versions will capture and/or output to tape or DVD and that auto-launching interfaces to your USB-connected camera or FireWire connected camcorder will launch probably the last version you installed.

[Spot]

I have tried using the organiser for similar tasks in this topic but have given up as it takes forever to update itself if files are moved or changed in other software. (I've gone to using Picasa). Don't get me wrong... I love PS Elements! just not the organiser.

Anyway.... reading this topic reminded me of this function: (copied from PSE 5 help)

To write tag information into your files
When you e-mail or export tagged JPEG, TIFF, or PSD files from Photoshop Elements, tag information is automatically included as an IPTC Keyword so that when the recipient opens the photo in their version of Photoshop Elements, the tags are attached.
If you want to e-mail or share a photo without using the Photoshop Elements e-mail or export features, you can manually write the tag information into the IPTC Keyword section in the header of the file.
In the Photo Browser, select one or more files and choose File > Write Tag Info To Files.

So does this mean that the data isn't permanently attached to the file unless you export/email with PSE OR do the above procedure?

[Barb O]

--After I load PrE4/PE6... will the PE6 go and fine my pictures where I tell it to look and put them in my catalog?

Yes. However, there is a consideration.
When building your current folder structures, you might have duplicated some of your photo files in order to place a specific photo in 2 folders. The PSE Organizer has logic to prevent entering to its Catalog duplicates of the same photo, so it processes (catalogs) the first time it encounters a given photo and then gives an error messages saying Not Imported because Duplicate when it sees that photo again. This can be confusing.
Generally, I like to control the sequence in which the Elements Organizer searches for photos instead of turning it loose on all photos and wondering if I will have sufficient scratch disk space or paging file to complete looking everywhere. So I selected groups of folders for the Cataloging instead of doing all at once.

--From reading here, I can put multiple tags for each kid, pet, location etc. correct? I assume I can, say, give me all the Jenna photos, or all the Shawn photos or all the Jamie photos and easily get them to PrE4 project easily.

Yes. There is of course the consideration that photo file resolution should be downsized/downrezed for use in Premiere Elements. I am still using PSE5 - PRE3 for my projects and I select in PSE5 based on tags, then use the photo files in PRE3. How this is done is different between PSE6/PE4 because PE4 now has some Organizer functionality. JohnnyO has a post on muvipix where he described his workflow in PSE6/PRE4.

--If I use PE6 to move the photo from the hard drive to the CD, will it know it and move the location information for each picture to CD # 1. After doing that, will it still stay in the catalog and remember what CD that picture is on? Basically telling me to get that CD and insert it so it can fine the picture?

I hesitate on this one because the answer (in theory) is yes. However people are having problems upgrading to PSE6 when they had photos or videos resident on CD or DVD and cataloged in earlier versions of the PSE Organizer. There is still a problem incident open with Adobe on that problem.

--Is there a back up feature of PE6, allowing me to only back up the new or change photos to the external hard drive? (Currently is use PC sync for that, but as I get more and more photos, its taking more time to find what is new.)

Again I will say in theory yes. However many people on multiple forums recommend using other backup software and being sure that the PSE catalog and the proxy files for an CD/DVD resident photos are backed up.

[Barb O]

does this mean that the data isn't permanently attached to the file unless you export/email with PSE OR do the above procedure?

Tag assignment is initially recorded in the Elements Organizer catalog.
"attached to the file" - well logically yes the file is associated with the Tag
However, the Tag is not always present in the file.

There are some semantic differences in the commands between versions, but you do have a command option to Write the Tags to the photo files under the File menu of the Organizer. So you do not need to Export or email the photos.

Be aware that not all file formats can accept the tags, that are written as keywords. I don't think that the RAW photo formats can accept this info but I do not have personal experience with them.

[Barb O]

Anyway we have many photos and we are taging them with key words to help find them later on - using them Photo impressions 6.5 from Arcshoft (got that with the new scanner/printer). We are using tags like Jenna, Shawn, Jamie, and Pets Abby, muffin, Molly, location such as England, MS, NH etc. We put the pictures in a file structure by date and tag them with the people in the photo.

Mark,
I have a suggestion on how you can check if the PSE Organizer will be able to use the Tags that you have. It does not seem promising since you said you did not find them in your current files. However, it seems worth a check.

Now you said you have PS7 and all I have is PSE versions. However maybe either this function will be the same or someone else can identify the PS7 equivalent. PSE has a File Info command. The Tags of PSE show in the Keywords area when the Tag has been written to the photo file. Is there any chance that you see this for the tags entered for Photo Impressions?

[mark hansen]

Thanks for the input everyone, it look likes a go with installing both programs and using PE6 organizer. I understand about moving outside of PE6 and that seems OK, so far, we will see. I didn't think I will get to keep the tags I set already, that would be too much to hope for.

I downloaded the stuff from the members area so I will review that again. Thanks for the input.

Mark