Standard Def On A Hi-Def TV - Update

[Dave McElderry]

Some time back I remember a conversation that took place here about what a poor job Hi-Def TVs do of displaying standard def content. I'm pretty sure Bob Seidel was in on that discussion. I tried to search for the thread but didn't have any luck. I do remember agreeing that my old CRT TV had a much better standard def picture than did our newer Samsung DLP Hi-Def.

We've had a number of repairs on our DLP under an extended warranty. It was about 4.5 years old. About six weeks ago the warranty company made us an offer we couldn't refuse. We ended up taking a store credit towards the purchase of a Panasonic plasma that was actually a couple of inches larger than our old one.

Well I've got to say that the difference is like night and day. The old TV was 720p. The new TV displays at 1080i for cable TV signals, upconverting as necessary. This means that it actually has to upconvert standard 480i to a higher resolution than the old one did. I'm told that the bigger the difference between the original signal resolution and the upconverted resolution the more difficult, because of the additional interpolation that's needed. But on this TV the standard def programming is very noticeably much higher quality than the old. I'm not sure why. It could be the difference between DLP and plasma, It could be that the new one does a better job of upconverting. It could be general improvements in the technology overall, or the difference in the manufacturers' specific TV technologies. Most likely it's a combination of these.

Anyway, the other day I viewed a standard def video that I made in PrEl, and was very impressed with how great it looked. If you happen to be one of those who has concerns about this particular aspect of Hi-Def TVs, you might want to check out the latest. Some very significant improvements have taken place.

[Bobby]

Thanks Dave. I don't recall the specific thread myself, but do recall discussing the subject.

Yes, it's all in the algorithms. A physical pixel on the TV can't change, but how the TV interprets the signal is all important. Glad to hear you "moved up"!

BTW, in the eternal question of whether to buy an extended warranty or not, one of the factors is the distinct possibility that they won't be able to fix your old set and just offer a new one to replace it, as you have. One salesperson, as I recall, was touting that exact point.

[Dave McElderry]

I'm not normally one for extended warranties. We've become a throw-away society, and most electronics are not made with the intention that they can be repaired, or at least certainly not on a component basis. At the time we purchased the TV, DLP technology was pretty new and didn't have a track record regarding problems. One thing we knew up front was that it required the periodic purchase of a lamp, and that replacment was included in the warranty. The warranty was only $299 for a 1+4 year protection. As it turned out, the lamp was replaced 3 times, once along with its ballast. The 4th time it was a bad safety switch on the lamp door. The warranty paid for itself at the first repair. I don't want to know how much money the warranty company put into that TV.

We didn't realize that there was a clause in the warranty contract which said that on the 4th repair for the same symptoms they would either replace the TV with a comparable one, or offer a store credit. DLP is on its way out. There's only one company making them now (Mitsubishi), and when we compared the model that they wanted us to trade for to the plasma and LCDs, it was obvious that we didn't want to end up with another DLP. They gave us a $1079 store credit towards the purchase of any TV of our choice, and then the store quoted a price that was $150 lower than the lowest price that I could find anywhere. This was after we'd alreayd had the TV for 4.5 years on a 1+4 warranty. It was truly a great deal. Even now I'm not sure why they did that. Maybe they wanted to make up for all of our trouble, and keep a customer. If so, it worked. We will shop there again. However, the other possibility is that they were expecting to sell us another extended warranty. On the new TV it would have been $699 for a 1+4. Well that didn't happen. We're going to purchase an extended warranty through a 3rd party warranty company for about one third the price. I just haven't decided which one yet. We have some time to decide.

[Bobby]

It's always a bit of a crap shoot, but it sounds like you did the right thing.

DLP is/was a very interesting technology, but anything that used a projection-based system is obviously in the end technically inferior to direct pixel view as in plasma and LCD. Most people I know who had DLP's had bulb replacement issues, but also in the beginning LCD backlight failure issues were also common.

I am ready to start shopping for a new unit myself. I currently have a 42" plasma, but it is only 720 (actually 768). On the other hand, the picture really is excellent and I have no issues as you had with SD display. But I am going to look, and I have a neighbor who always buys my old stuff!

[Dave McElderry]

I came across an interesting chart the other day that compares screen size, and viewing distances to determine what resolution is really necessary for best picture quality. In many cases the eye can't tell the difference between 720 and 1080.

It's great that you have a way to pass on your equipment. For me it's always a problem, knowing that the equipment still operates just fine but that I really don't have a use for it. I hate to put it out to the curb, but often it's not worth trying to sell. In the case of the DLP TV, they had repaired it before they told me that they were going to replace it. If I had taken the Mitsubishi as a direct trade they would have taken the old TV. But since I took the store credit instead, the old TV was mine to keep. I ended up donating it to our church, which is using it for one of our youth groups' meeting rooms. If it dies they can pitch it or elect to put money into it. And I can take a nominal amount off of my taxes this year.

Regarding your purchase of a new unit I found that trying to compare TVs in the store was nearly impossible, and trying to decide the picture potential in those same conditions was worse. I ended up spending some serious time in some Hi-Def forums. Of course you have to separate the important stuff from the BS, but overall It turned out to be a great resource for me. We're extremely happy with our purchase. For us, and our viewinig environment, plasma was the only way to go.

[Ken Jarstad]

Dave, I remember that (those) discussion(s), too. It was my mantra that SD video always looks better on an SDTV. The issue concerns the video scaler circuitry in the HDTV. Some scalers were better than others. Commercial TV broadcasters use scalers, too. And, it seems that scaling technology is getting better - the algorithms used to do the scaling have been tweaked, much like the algorithms in modern codecs. So the display of SD video on HDTVs is becoming better. I'll bet that if you get real close to your set though, you'll still be able to see a cruddy picture - kind of like viewing a painting. Watching my 32 inch set from 12 feet away SD video is quite tolerable these days. And some of the older CRT sets of my friends show line pairing, poor contrast and brightness blooming distortion that flat panel displays have thankfully eliminated.

[Ted]

Not to terribly threadjack, but I can speak on behalf of extended warranties. Just a week or so ago, I dropped my HV 20 (my chair arm hooked onto the cable). Thankfully, Best Buy has an accidental warranty program. However, seeing as it was just a dislodged bevel, I thought for sure they'd be able to replace it.

I was then told it was cost-prohibitive to replace the "old" part, so I was told to swap for a new camcorder. I was actually considering another mini DV tape camcorder, but the store where I had to swap did not have one. Thus why I ended up with my current Canon HF S10.

The jury's still out whether or not a dummy like me will be able to handle this!

We now return you all back to your regularly scheduled thread, already in progress.

[Dave McElderry]

No hijack here Ted. It was just a conversational thread anyway. I hope your new machine works out for you. I'd have a difficult time making a decision to get away from MiniDV if something happened to my present machine. The way it's going, one of these days there won't be any decision to make; it will be made for us because they just won't be available.

Extended warranties are just an insurance policy, and a gamble. If you can afford to replace the item then there's no point in purchasing the warranty. But on the bigger ticket items a reasonably priced warranty can be well worth it. Surprisingly I haven't heard stories of warranty scams or warranty companies trying to wiggle out of their responsibilities. The terms are spelled out in detail up front, and from what I've heard they seem to stick to them. I think more problems arise from people purchasing warranties without knowing exactly what kind of protection they're purchasing.