AVCHD VS. HDV

[Maxine370]

Thanks for doing that test. When I render I do get a smooth stream but when that would significantly slow me down when editing. I'm going to assume my machine is not up to task. I defragged overnight. We'll see if it makes a difference.

It frustrates me that the technology for the cameras is outpacing the computer and software. It makes it very hard on my business. Oh well, I still have lots of clients who shoot in SD.

Thanks again for your input. You are always a few steps ahead of the curve.

[Chuck Engels]

Wow, that is quite a difference from the M2t files you get from a HDV MiniDV camcorder.
I have up to 20 minutes of footage on the timeline and it will play pretty smooth without rendering, and perfect after rendering.
The rendering after every few edits has become a habit anyway so I still do it while editing HDV, but it still doesn't take very long.
Maybe it's my machine, or the two types of files are that much different

[dalelpaq]

I asked the original question, AVCHD vs. HDV, and am following the discussion with great interest. However, I'd like to rephrase the question because, in the end, I have to buy a new cam! I am very interested in video quality. That said, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. I submit that if a "normal" person with "normal" eyes can't see the difference between AVCHD and HDV, then, as far as I'm concerned, there is no difference. I use an "ordinary" PC for my editing work which has an "ordinary" flat panel display (it's not 16:9, it's not calibrated). I edit in a room filled with daylight or, in the evenings, a high intensity desk lamp. When I view my finished work, I watch it on a fantastic 52 inch Sony Bravia. But, the viewing room is either lit by daylight or by a combination of incandescent and fluorescent lamps. I don't sit at the theoretical proper distance and often don't even sit directly in front of it. Moreover, what HD I do watch is from my cable company which is certainly better than their SD, but still not really good like a blue ray disk can provide. In other words, I guess my HD bar is somewhat on the low end (eventually, I'll get a blue ray burner/player but not till the cam is paid for!). So, here's the rephrased question, will I notice the difference?

I also note that the "literature" clearly suggests that tape, while still available, will eventually go away! Would I just be kidding myself by avoiding AVCHD? To do so is to really limit the number of cam models in the $1K price range to choose from.

If necessary, I'll upgrade to PE7 to be able to edit AVCHD (I have Adobe Premiere CS2 as well but don't use it as I have yet to exceed the capabilities of PE4). But, I also use After Effects CS3 Pro. If AE CS3 doesn't input and work with AVCHD, given that the software costs more than the cam will, then decision made.

I'm looking forward to the discussion. Thanks, Dale

[Bob]

If necessary, I'll upgrade to PE7 to be able to edit AVCHD (I have Adobe Premiere CS2 as well but don't use it as I have yet to exceed the capabilities of PE4). But, I also use After Effects CS3 Pro. If AE CS3 doesn't input and work with AVCHD, given that the software costs more than the cam will, then decision made.

You'll need After Effects CS4 to work with AVCHD. CS3 and earlier don't support it.

[dalelpaq]

Bob, this is getting confusing. I'm trying to find a HD cam that records in HDV format and also has an EVF and manual focus and exposure controls. So far, staying in the $1000 or so price range, I've found the Canon HV30. But, it downloads through firewire which I don't have - though adding it is far less expensive than upgrading AE CS3 to CS4! Maybe someone knows of another cam that I've simply missed. Can I download AVCHD into PE7 and then, without doing anything to it, save it to disc in a format AE CS3 will input? Dale

[John 'twosheds' McDonald]

...... it downloads through firewire which I don't have......

One of the strangest things about camcorder manufacturers is that they will give you connection cables for everything - even cables that you don't want or need. But when it comes to a firewire (or, in Sony terms, iLink) then you have to go and buy your own.

I'm sure that this ommission makes sense to someone in (camcorder) sales and marketing.

Quite frankly, it makes no sense at all to me why such a trivial, marginal cost increment item is never supplied (happy to be corrected on that 'never' statement).

[Chuck Engels]

Can I download AVCHD into PE7 and then, without doing anything to it, save it to disc in a format AE CS3 will input? Dale

Yes, you can export to DV-AVI, uncompressed AVI, and other formats that will work in AE CS3.

The HV30 is highly recommended and the video is simply amazing. The cost of a $20 firewire card is well worth the additional time to capture.
The recommended capture method would be HDVSplit and then import the files into Premiere Elements or AE CS3. It is also nice to have a tape backup of all the video, lots of good solid reasons to use tape. All of the major networks, cable stations and local TV stations are still using tape even though they have moved to HDV. I really don't think that the AVCHD format is ready for prime time yet, at least not the average consumer. It might not be far away but I still think that the tape method is the best way to go for now, it's easy and it works

[sidd finch]

Not to downplay the AVCHD format, but it does require a lot of extra to get off and running in regards to system requirements. I have been checking out the Sony HDR HC9 which is a tape based Hi Def Camcorder. Both use the CMOS chip to process video.

The price is very comparable and a lot less of a hassle. Tape is cheap and I think DV tape will be with us long into the future. Plus it down converts to SD if you need to produce SD video. Oh yeah all of the above “IMO”

Sidd

[Maxine370]

An update and question from Paul.
Since my footage is AvCHD (MTS files) and I need to have it play steadily to be able to edit it I've gone ahead and coverted it to Microsoft DV AVI using Max bit depth and checking off the Deinterlace Video Footage box when exporting.

THne I could import it into Pro and have it play with no problems and when I export it to Encore and burn on disc...viola, no ghosting on the DVD playback. DOes this sound about right. Is the Deitnterlacing the trick when it comes to the ghosting?

This Hi Def stuff really confuses me especially since there are so many kinds and so much to know about it all. I need to study my :

http://www.adobe.com/products/premiere/pdfs/hdprimer.pdf

http://www.adobe.com/designcenter/productionstudio/articles/prs1ip_hdprimer/prs1ip_hdprimer.pdf

[Paul LS]

If the burnt DVD is good quality then all is OK. Not sure what you mean by ghosting on the DVD playback... if you are refering to jerkyness when there is motion in the video then this is a field order issue. But it sounds like you deinterlaced the export in which case the field order is irrelevant.

AVCHD is upper field first... I am not sure if PE7 takes this into account when you export to DV-AVI or whether you have to reverse field dominance. But if you converted to DV-AVI (which is lower field first) you could have worked with the interlaced footage in Pro and Encore as the workflow for DV-AVI is lower field first.

The only issue with deinterlacing the footage is that (dependant on the deinterlace method) you can lose resolution. But as you started with high definition footage and exported as standard definition resolution this is irrelvant.

[RJ Johnston]

FYI: When you render an AVCHD in pre 7, the rendered preview files are MPEG-2. That is why the rendered preview plays back more smoothly than an unedited AVCHD.

[Ken Jarstad]

That's interesting. An MPEG-4 file is rendered to an MPEG-2!

[sidd finch]

Not sure if you made your camcorder purchase yet, but I came across an interesting article from camcorderinfo.com (article link below)

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Th ... 35624.htm#

“It looks like the Wall Street Journal has chosen to Standardize on the Sony HDR-HC9 for their newspaper. According to the Beet.TV piece, the Journal publishes 25 to 30 videos a day, most of which include material grabbed by Journal reporters. The paper sponsors regular training sessions to help old-time print reporters master the craft of running video interviews. The paper also purchased "dozens" of Sony HDR-HC9 cameras for reporters to use. Standardizing on a single camera helps the paper to come up with a uniform look and feel for all their videos and streamlines the workflow required to turn raw footage into polished streaming video. The HDR-HC9 is a great tape-based HD camera because it makes archiving footage relatively easy. This camera is affordable, produces great quality footage, and looks a little "more professional" than its main competitor, the Canon HV30.”


Sidd

[Ken Jarstad]

I suppose "black" ....... is more professional.

[sidd finch]

I think the Canon HV30 is black too Ken

Sidd